[Regia-NA] Re: Crossbows during the Viking period.
Yolli
list-regia-na@lig.net
Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:05:50 -0000
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Hi N. Dunning,
The crossbow just touches the period we re-enact - if the images from =
Normandy can be trusted date wise. We only use the weapon for late =
'conquest' do's and not before.
The evidence for the crossbow are very slim but they are there. What we =
try to do when set with a problem like this is to purposely have only =
the one or at worst two examples on show - the rest of the archers would =
have bows as per normal because we are duty bound not to deny the =
existence of such a weapon but in the same breath not over state their =
use.
In Arthur Macgregor's book on bone and antler materials 1985, he states =
on page 59:=20
"From the 11th century onwards the practice seems to become more common. =
Amongst the earliest lathe-turned products of this period are cross-bow =
nuts, examples of which come from Goltho Manor, Lincolnshire in the 11th =
century and from Wareham Castle, Dorset, early in the following century. =
In the later medieval period, turned nuts of antler ( and sometimes of =
ivory ) become fairly common."
An antler nut was also found at Buston Crannog in Strathclyde and dates =
to around the 8th century - although the find could possibly be of a =
later date in this case.
He goes on: " A further important find whose significance seems not to =
have been recognised has been made at the Butte d'isle Aumont, Aube, =
France ( Scapula 1956 ) among the bone and antler finds from this site =
is an unmistakeable cross-bow nut seemingly incorporating a hole for =
securing an iron wedge. The settlement is said to have been destroyed in =
the 10th century and, if the nut does indeed belong to the period of =
occupation of the site, it would be the earliest securely-stratified =
example to survive. What ever it's status beforehand, the cross-bow =
enjoyed greatly increased popularity from the time of the Norman =
Conquest..."
So for some time people are making these things for a good reason...
Now the only bit that I can't find a source for is the rising pin method =
of releasing the bow string - it is 'primitive and operates, but it's =
one of those things that sometimes seem to appear in re-enactment =
without an explanation.
On a personal note, I have yet to see a re-enactment version of a =
cross-bow that has the 'lethality' of the real thing. A 30lb bow ( which =
is the limit that we use in re-enacting other than for purely target =
practice ) with a real arrowhead has some genuine killing power to it =
even at that low draw weight. The solution to the power that a cross-bow =
needs has yet to be effected as yet by my estimation. The purely short =
wooden prod is very underpowered even in the re-enactment version.
I'm forwarding this to a couple of newsgroups to see what it kicks up in =
case there is more 'out there'.
I hope this goes to clarify the situation for you.
Cheers, Roland Williamson.
PS. Go on, tell us which society you are with since Regia is 'coming' to =
your aid. ;-)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Nicholas Dunning=20
To: webmaster@regia.org=20
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Crossbows during the Viking period.
Greetings.
Having just been to a re-enactors fair I saw a store detailing that =
they had authentic crossbows detailing to the dark ages. As a viking =
re-enactor and a history student I have heard references to this, =
however an employee of the british museum speciallising in the period =
has said there is no evidence for the use of the weapon.
The vendor of the crossbows also mentioned that it is a weapon that is =
mentioned in the handbook for your group as authentic. I would like to =
find out what evidence there is for the weapon in our period, so if it =
is possible, would you be able to send me the names of =
documents/archaeological reports/etc that support the use of the weapon.
Many thanks in advance.
N Dunning.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi N. Dunning,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The crossbow just touches the period we =
re-enact -=20
if the images from Normandy can be trusted date wise. We only use the =
weapon for=20
late 'conquest' do's and not before.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The evidence for the crossbow are very =
slim but=20
they are there. What we try to do when set with a problem like this is =
to=20
purposely have only the one or at worst two examples on show - the rest =
of the=20
archers would have bows as per normal because we are duty bound not to =
deny the=20
existence of such a weapon but in the same breath not over state their=20
use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Arthur Macgregor's book on bone and =
antler=20
materials 1985, he states on page 59: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"From the 11th century onwards the =
practice seems=20
to become more common. Amongst the earliest lathe-turned products of =
this period=20
are cross-bow nuts, examples of which come from Goltho Manor, =
Lincolnshire in=20
the 11th century and from Wareham Castle, Dorset, early in the following =
century. In the later medieval period, turned nuts of antler ( and =
sometimes of ivory ) become fairly common."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An antler nut was also found at Buston =
Crannog in=20
Strathclyde and dates to around the 8th century - although the find =
could=20
possibly be of a later date in this case.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He goes on: " A further important find =
whose=20
significance seems not to have been recognised has been made at the =
Butte d'isle=20
Aumont, Aube, France ( Scapula 1956 ) among the bone and antler finds =
from this=20
site is an unmistakeable cross-bow nut seemingly incorporating a hole =
for=20
securing an iron wedge. The settlement is said to have been destroyed in =
the=20
10th century and, if the nut does indeed belong to the period of =
occupation of=20
the site, it would be the earliest securely-stratified example to =
survive. What=20
ever it's status beforehand, the cross-bow enjoyed greatly increased =
popularity=20
from the time of the Norman Conquest..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So for some time people are making =
these things for=20
a good reason...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now the only bit that I can't find a =
source for is=20
the rising pin method of releasing the bow string - it is 'primitive and =
operates, but it's one of those things that sometimes seem to appear in=20
re-enactment without an explanation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On a personal note, I have yet to see a =
re-enactment version of a cross-bow that has the 'lethality' of the real =
thing.=20
A 30lb bow ( which is the limit that we use in re-enacting other than =
for purely=20
target practice ) with a real arrowhead has some genuine killing =
power to=20
it even at that low draw weight. The solution to the power that a =
cross-bow=20
needs has yet to be effected as yet by my estimation. The purely =
short=20
wooden prod is very underpowered even in the re-enactment =
version.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm forwarding this to a couple of =
newsgroups to=20
see what it kicks up in case there is more 'out there'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this goes to clarify the =
situation for=20
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers, Roland Williamson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS. Go on, tell us which society you =
are with since=20
Regia is 'coming' to your aid. ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dnicholas.dunning@btopenworld.com=20
href=3D"mailto:nicholas.dunning@btopenworld.com">Nicholas Dunning</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3D" =
webmaster@regia.org"=20
href=3D"mailto:webmaster@regia.org">webmaster@regia.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 07, 2003 =
10:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Crossbows during the =
Viking=20
period.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greetings.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Having just been to a re-enactors =
fair I saw a=20
store detailing that they had authentic crossbows detailing to the =
dark=20
ages. As a viking re-enactor and a history student I have heard=20
references to this, however an employee of the british museum =
speciallising in=20
the period has said there is no evidence for the use of the=20
weapon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The vendor of the crossbows also =
mentioned that=20
it is a weapon that is mentioned in the handbook for your group as=20
authentic. I would like to find out what evidence there is for =
the=20
weapon in our period, so i</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>f it is =
possible,=20
would you be able to send me the names of documents/archaeological =
reports/etc=20
that support the use of the weapon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many thanks in advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>N =
Dunning.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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