[Regia-NA] Minor Rant Regarding Kim's Comments - Delete Now if You Don't Want to Read This

[Lori Rael Northon]

What may I ask does the fact that I have been involved with the SCA have to
do with documentation, authenticity or this list?  I have also been involved
with different Living History groups here in the US.  Does that now negate
my affiliation with the SCA or just put me in a worse light?  Please don't
pretend to know who I am or how I play my game in the SCA because you have
been a visitor to Pennsic.  Many thousands of our membership will never have
the opportunity to visit Pennsic nor do they feel it necessary.  With the
exception of the few people in the Portland area, none of you have ever met
me, and with the exception of Martin, none of you have ever spoken to me.
None of you knows a thing about me, my background, my education, my
abilities, my experience or anything else besides what I have chosen to
reveal to you in my emails.  You have a rather cavalier attitude if you
simply lump me into your idea of what your perception of the SCA is all
about.  Not only are there thousands of people within the SCA that have no
concern for authenticity, there are also thousands of people that make many
Living History re-enactors look like amateurs having a bad hair day, and
many thousands more at various levels in between.  I am eminently familiar
with authenticity, uncompromising attention to detail, and insular
attitudes.  You are sadly mistaken if you believe that all people in the SCA
are there for recognition, prestige, or rank.  Thousands of people like
myself are dedicated to the education of both our new members and existing
members world-wide without any thought for themselves.  It is the game we
chose to play, at the level we chose to play.  Again, I repeat, you do not
know me, so please don't pretend that you do.

Lori



> Message: 4
> From: "J. Kim Siddorn" <kim.siddorn@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <list-regia-na@lig.net>, <lesseley@attbi.com>
> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:25:31 -0000
> Subject: [Regia-NA] Re: [Regia] Re:  documentation and misunderstandings
> Reply-To: list-regia-na@lig.net
>
> Hi Michelle,
>
> Firstly, thank you for understanding that nothing that any of us said was
> intended to wound or hurt, only help.  That is the trouble with this form
of
> communication, it is all to easy to take offence where none is intended
and
> for the jocular remark to be taken amiss. Some people are more forthright
> than others and all the visual cues that come across in conversation are,
of
> course, missing..
>
> The exchange we have just witnessed should come as no surprise to any of
us.
> Lori, trained in the social customs and mores of the SCA, has most
valiantly
> attempted to fit into an organisation based in another country where the
> whole thrust of what we do is different from that of the SCA. I applaud
her
> effort and pride in her achievements, I really do. There must have been
many
> occasions in the past where people like her have been taken aback by our
> vociferous attitude in Regia, brought about by a history of uncompromising
> attention to detail, individual and corporate experimentation and a - it
> must be said - an insular attitude to "other societies".
>
> One real difference I perceive is that rank in the SCA is observed and
> accepted as an important part of society life but in Regia Anglorum, rank
is
> of virtually no account whatever. Experience and commitment are rarely
> rewarded here and officers frequently dress down on site so they can get
> their hands dirty! Wearing the clothes to which their "rank" entitles them
> would mean that they could only sit about and look important, not to our
> taste at all ;o))
>
> In all this, it occurs to me that we decided over ten years ago that in
> respect of colour in dyes and pigments, we would only accept our own
> research as a baseline. Painted and dyed remains from the archaeological
> record are not reliable and extant examples are changed by both the
passage
> of the years and variable storage conditions after excavation. There
> followed an extensive and intensive research programme over a period of
> years which utilised available water, plants and mordents gathered at
events
> and resulted in colours actually produced on site during public shows.
Thus,
> we discovered (for instance) that the "hardness" of the water and other
> imponderables made frequently considerable differences of shade. Although
> made available at the time, access to this research did not really survive
> the membership of the co-ordinator, despite good will on both sides. New
> hands have now duplicated and expanded that research, ably forwarded by
> Hazel Uzzell, a stalwart lady who carries the semi-official title of
> "Textiles Co-ordinator", when in all conscience her efforts should have
been
> well rewarded by recognition if nothing else.
>
> We suffer badly from proportionate numbers. I believe the SCA has some
> 65,000 members across the world  and over 10,000 in California alone.
Regia
> barely scratches around five hundred. There are immense advantages in
having
> so many committed souls working towards a common aim - just think what
we've
> achieved ourselves! A real problem Regia has is lack of published
documents,
> mainly because we lack the money to be able to pay people to publish their
> research. Where it is done - as in the case of Hazel Uzzell's excellent
book
> on paint and pigment - it is done virtually despite our efforts rather
than
> because of them.
>
> I thoroughly support Tom Sweeting's efforts in getting together a baseline
> document but the fact that one person is doing it as a personal initiative
> is an indication of the problem.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kim Siddorn
>
> "Spring in the air?"
> "Spring in the air yerself !"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MicheleAsbury@aol.com>
> To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:42 AM
> Subject: [Regia] Re: documentation and misunderstandings
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I realise that the discussions between Lori and the group are not
directly
> > any of my business but as someone who likes to see people getting on, I
> found
> > it quite distressing to see misunderstandings arising over this issue.
> >
> > I did not interpret any of the responses to Lori's questions from
members
> in
> > the UK  as  'snipes' or 'jibes' - (at least not that appeared on list) -
> but
> > I have met some of the people that responded and can therefore put faces
> to
> > the names and from my experience of them I know that they would not be
> trying
> > to be insulting - on the contrary, they would be being genuinely
helpful.
> > Personally, I have only ever encountered well meaning advice and
support.
> >
> > The amount of time and effort invested by people in their hobby and the
> quest
> > for 'authenticity' can however, make it a very emotive issue.  As a new
> > member myself I can appreciate this and I am equally sure that every
other
> > member has experienced it.
> >
> > What I would like to ask is if there is in existence a single link that
> lists
> > all current archeological data and resource materials on every aspect of
> > Regia's time period that people could be directed to when these kind of
> > issues come  up.  At least it might be a good idea to have a listing of
> all
> > the research materials that Regia refer to.  This might take the issues
> > raised from the personal and provide people with a starting point for
> > understanding the stance taken on issues by Regia.  I appreciate that
> > experimental archeology is a very important part of Regia's purpose, and
> that
> > this can bring into question 'conventional' interpretations of data, but
> > before one can experiment, there has to be an original source.
> >
> > Personally, I am on the bottom rung of the ladder with regards to
> research,
> > but I know that many members of Regia have read vast amounts of
material;
> > would it be possible, or would it be a logistical nightmare, if members
> who
> > have found information, sources etc or who have experimented with
various
> > aspects, could add their findings to a central listing on a Regia page
so
> > that members can access this.  Then if anyone has data that could give a
> > slightly different slant as to possible interpretations, they could
enter
> > into debate without it spiralling to a level where people feel isolated
> and
> > personally attacked.
> >
> > Does such a list exist?  Does anyone else feel that this would be a good
> > idea?  A definite adjunct to the work that Tom is doing in compiling a
> > photographic resource!
> >
> > Michele
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > For more information: http://www.regia.org/
> > Post message: regia@yahoogroups.com
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> which group
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> > Group documents at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regia/files/Documents/
> > Regia@yahoogroups.com - Is there any alternative?
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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