[Regia-NA] Minor Rant Regarding Kim's Comments - Delete Now if You Don't Want to Read This

[J. Kim Siddorn]

I see that my well-meant and ameliorative comments  have been taken amiss
and anything else I might say may be taken equally poorly, so I withdraw
from this conversation.

All I will say is that the opinion I gained of the SCA at Pennsic in the
millennium year was overwhelmingly positive. Ask anyone that I saw there or
talked to about it.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lori Rael Northon" <lesseley@attbi.com>
To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:43 PM
Subject: [Regia-NA] Minor Rant Regarding Kim's Comments - Delete Now if You
Don't Want to Read This


> What may I ask does the fact that I have been involved with the SCA have
to
> do with documentation, authenticity or this list?  I have also been
involved
> with different Living History groups here in the US.  Does that now negate
> my affiliation with the SCA or just put me in a worse light?  Please don't
> pretend to know who I am or how I play my game in the SCA because you have
> been a visitor to Pennsic.  Many thousands of our membership will never
have
> the opportunity to visit Pennsic nor do they feel it necessary.  With the
> exception of the few people in the Portland area, none of you have ever
met
> me, and with the exception of Martin, none of you have ever spoken to me.
> None of you knows a thing about me, my background, my education, my
> abilities, my experience or anything else besides what I have chosen to
> reveal to you in my emails.  You have a rather cavalier attitude if you
> simply lump me into your idea of what your perception of the SCA is all
> about.  Not only are there thousands of people within the SCA that have no
> concern for authenticity, there are also thousands of people that make
many
> Living History re-enactors look like amateurs having a bad hair day, and
> many thousands more at various levels in between.  I am eminently familiar
> with authenticity, uncompromising attention to detail, and insular
> attitudes.  You are sadly mistaken if you believe that all people in the
SCA
> are there for recognition, prestige, or rank.  Thousands of people like
> myself are dedicated to the education of both our new members and existing
> members world-wide without any thought for themselves.  It is the game we
> chose to play, at the level we chose to play.  Again, I repeat, you do not
> know me, so please don't pretend that you do.
>
> Lori
>
>
>
> > Message: 4
> > From: "J. Kim Siddorn" <kim.siddorn@blueyonder.co.uk>
> > To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: <list-regia-na@lig.net>, <lesseley@attbi.com>
> > Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:25:31 -0000
> > Subject: [Regia-NA] Re: [Regia] Re:  documentation and misunderstandings
> > Reply-To: list-regia-na@lig.net
> >
> > Hi Michelle,
> >
> > Firstly, thank you for understanding that nothing that any of us said
was
> > intended to wound or hurt, only help.  That is the trouble with this
form
> of
> > communication, it is all to easy to take offence where none is intended
> and
> > for the jocular remark to be taken amiss. Some people are more
forthright
> > than others and all the visual cues that come across in conversation
are,
> of
> > course, missing..
> >
> > The exchange we have just witnessed should come as no surprise to any of
> us.
> > Lori, trained in the social customs and mores of the SCA, has most
> valiantly
> > attempted to fit into an organisation based in another country where the
> > whole thrust of what we do is different from that of the SCA. I applaud
> her
> > effort and pride in her achievements, I really do. There must have been
> many
> > occasions in the past where people like her have been taken aback by our
> > vociferous attitude in Regia, brought about by a history of
uncompromising
> > attention to detail, individual and corporate experimentation and a - it
> > must be said - an insular attitude to "other societies".
> >
> > One real difference I perceive is that rank in the SCA is observed and
> > accepted as an important part of society life but in Regia Anglorum,
rank
> is
> > of virtually no account whatever. Experience and commitment are rarely
> > rewarded here and officers frequently dress down on site so they can get
> > their hands dirty! Wearing the clothes to which their "rank" entitles
them
> > would mean that they could only sit about and look important, not to our
> > taste at all ;o))
> >
> > In all this, it occurs to me that we decided over ten years ago that in
> > respect of colour in dyes and pigments, we would only accept our own
> > research as a baseline. Painted and dyed remains from the archaeological
> > record are not reliable and extant examples are changed by both the
> passage
> > of the years and variable storage conditions after excavation. There
> > followed an extensive and intensive research programme over a period of
> > years which utilised available water, plants and mordents gathered at
> events
> > and resulted in colours actually produced on site during public shows.
> Thus,
> > we discovered (for instance) that the "hardness" of the water and other
> > imponderables made frequently considerable differences of shade.
Although
> > made available at the time, access to this research did not really
survive
> > the membership of the co-ordinator, despite good will on both sides. New
> > hands have now duplicated and expanded that research, ably forwarded by
> > Hazel Uzzell, a stalwart lady who carries the semi-official title of
> > "Textiles Co-ordinator", when in all conscience her efforts should have
> been
> > well rewarded by recognition if nothing else.
> >
> > We suffer badly from proportionate numbers. I believe the SCA has some
> > 65,000 members across the world  and over 10,000 in California alone.
> Regia
> > barely scratches around five hundred. There are immense advantages in
> having
> > so many committed souls working towards a common aim - just think what
> we've
> > achieved ourselves! A real problem Regia has is lack of published
> documents,
> > mainly because we lack the money to be able to pay people to publish
their
> > research. Where it is done - as in the case of Hazel Uzzell's excellent
> book
> > on paint and pigment - it is done virtually despite our efforts rather
> than
> > because of them.
> >
> > I thoroughly support Tom Sweeting's efforts in getting together a
baseline
> > document but the fact that one person is doing it as a personal
initiative
> > is an indication of the problem.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kim Siddorn
> >
> > "Spring in the air?"
> > "Spring in the air yerself !"
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MicheleAsbury@aol.com>
> > To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:42 AM
> > Subject: [Regia] Re: documentation and misunderstandings
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I realise that the discussions between Lori and the group are not
> directly
> > > any of my business but as someone who likes to see people getting on,
I
> > found
> > > it quite distressing to see misunderstandings arising over this issue.
> > >
> > > I did not interpret any of the responses to Lori's questions from
> members
> > in
> > > the UK  as  'snipes' or 'jibes' - (at least not that appeared on
list) -
> > but
> > > I have met some of the people that responded and can therefore put
faces
> > to
> > > the names and from my experience of them I know that they would not be
> > trying
> > > to be insulting - on the contrary, they would be being genuinely
> helpful.
> > > Personally, I have only ever encountered well meaning advice and
> support.
> > >
> > > The amount of time and effort invested by people in their hobby and
the
> > quest
> > > for 'authenticity' can however, make it a very emotive issue.  As a
new
> > > member myself I can appreciate this and I am equally sure that every
> other
> > > member has experienced it.
> > >
> > > What I would like to ask is if there is in existence a single link
that
> > lists
> > > all current archeological data and resource materials on every aspect
of
> > > Regia's time period that people could be directed to when these kind
of
> > > issues come  up.  At least it might be a good idea to have a listing
of
> > all
> > > the research materials that Regia refer to.  This might take the
issues
> > > raised from the personal and provide people with a starting point for
> > > understanding the stance taken on issues by Regia.  I appreciate that
> > > experimental archeology is a very important part of Regia's purpose,
and
> > that
> > > this can bring into question 'conventional' interpretations of data,
but
> > > before one can experiment, there has to be an original source.
> > >
> > > Personally, I am on the bottom rung of the ladder with regards to
> > research,
> > > but I know that many members of Regia have read vast amounts of
> material;
> > > would it be possible, or would it be a logistical nightmare, if
members
> > who
> > > have found information, sources etc or who have experimented with
> various
> > > aspects, could add their findings to a central listing on a Regia page
> so
> > > that members can access this.  Then if anyone has data that could give
a
> > > slightly different slant as to possible interpretations, they could
> enter
> > > into debate without it spiralling to a level where people feel
isolated
> > and
> > > personally attacked.
> > >
> > > Does such a list exist?  Does anyone else feel that this would be a
good
> > > idea?  A definite adjunct to the work that Tom is doing in compiling a
> > > photographic resource!
> > >
> > > Michele
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > For more information: http://www.regia.org/
> > > Post message: regia@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subscribe:  email regia-owner@yahoogroups.com - saying who you are and
> > which group
> > > Unsubscribe:  regia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > List owner:  regia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > > Group documents at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regia/files/Documents/
> > > Regia@yahoogroups.com - Is there any alternative?
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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