[Regia-NA] My response to Colors, Getelds, Etc.

[Jon Smith]

Snipped - on black and blue dyes...

-----Original Message-----
From: list-regia-na-admin@lig.net [mailto:list-regia-na-admin@lig.net]On

> I'm told blue was a difficult and horribly expensive color to obtain...

Woad depletes the soil. The method for producing dye from woad is complex
[and would require a lot of dye stuff] It involves plenty of heated urine on
top of the plant which smells. It is a time consuming process. To produce a
reasonable blue would take in excess of a week - to produce darker blues
longer. To produce a dark blue on wool is less of an issue - as you simply
start with a darker grey or brown wool; Linen starts off a very light
colour. I have a modern indigo died garment which has been worn in the sun
about 6 times - and has already lost some of its colour. This was produced
from chemical indigo - and not a modern aniline dye. It is not a suprise
that the best indigo comes from warm sunny climes - as the traditional
preparation for the dyestuff involves drying it in direct sunlight [Hazel
read me the reference tonight - its 3rd century AD]. We do see a lot of
records of woad/indigotin? dyes in the archaeological record (along with
madder (and weld I think)) because they are the three period dyes that are
permanent - both to light and to soil conditions. The modern aniline dye
process gives us access to more colours and much faster colours than the
natural dying process - hence stronger more permanent colours become
available - its been about 16 years since I did any biochemistry but from
what I remember the main difference is the way the dyestuff attaches itself
to the yarn.

Additionally from attempting to produce a purple from madder and woad, over
dying with woad is tricky and can bleach the initial colour, so the woad dye
must be the first applied.

> I'm told also that the modern eye cannot distinguish the difference
between chemically
> achieved black dye and black achieved using period methods.

This modern eye can. Have had quite a lot of experience with modern paints
and dye stuffs, there are several types of black - or shades of black [as
all good assassins know] and as they fade you find they will turn grey, or
slightly blue, green or brown. There is definitely a difference in the tone
and quality of this black that is hard to describe, but is obvious when you
see it. Flag Iris root will produce a dark grey dye, using this over brown
or grey WOOL will produce a black of sorts [again this is a dye that takes
lots of preparation and experienced dyers I know - Hazel and Sue amongst
them have had problems in the past] - the other dyestuff that is used in the
medieval period for black is boxwood - although this appears to have been
introduced to this country post-conquest. The grey component soon fades, as
does the natural component of the wool. The modern equivalent or period
black fleeced sheep may look black but are a very dark burnt umber colour
and in sunlight this can turn almost Tan - not good for a black.

This has mainly come from watching and assisting in the dyeing process and
from the bio-chem part of my A-Level

Hope this helps

Jon