[Regia-NA] Blue dyeing

[Carolyn Priest-Dorman]

I'm pulling together things from more than one posting here in order to 
inject some more facts into the discussion.  My approach to this subject 
has been to read about what colorants and dyestuffs have been found in the 
archaeological record and then to set about using them to dye 
period-appropriate fibers and yarns.

Kim wrote:

>we decided over ten years ago that in
>respect of colour in dyes and pigments, we would only accept our own
>research as a baseline. Painted and dyed remains from the archaeological
>record are not reliable and extant examples are changed by both the passage
>of the years and variable storage conditions after excavation.

I am assuming from this that you mean "not reliable indicators of what the 
original color actually looked like," which is certainly the 
case.  However, dyed remains from the archaeological record frequently give 
positive results when tested for the chemical colorants making up medieval 
dyestuffs.  In some cases, based on the constellation of specific colorants 
identified, it's even possible to make an informed guess at which member of 
the madder family was the original dyestuff.

Quoting Lori, Hrolf wrote:

>     It is my understanding from countless
> > references too numerous to even mention, as well as many dye "experts"
> > across the board, that a very dark blue is achievable using woad.
>         Care to document these references and "experts"? If we have missed
>something, we would like to know, please...

I am not an expert, but I've achieved very dark blues on wool using 
woad.  All it takes is patience during a successive number of dips into the 
vat.  The more dips, the darker.  Medieval guild records from southern 
France suggest that for the darker shades a succession of dips were 
required, in a series of vats in various degrees of exhaustion, over the 
course of a couple days.  That was no doubt due to the economy of scale 
provided by the availability of several vats in an industrial setting; I 
don't know of any evidence to support that scale of woad dyeing in Regia 
period.  Still, given the fact that it has repeatedly proved trivially 
simple for me to get dark blue yarn for small weaving and tablet weaving 
projects in one evening using just a vat and patience, I doubt very much if 
it was impossible in Regia period.  Most of the blue-dyed textiles found in 
Scandinavia from that period have been extremely dark, nearly black.  See 
my article on dyes of the Viking Age for several supporting archaeological 
references.

http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/vikdyes.html

On the other hand, it wouldn't occur to me to dye linen and then use it on 
a tent instead of on clothing textiles.  I don't know of any evidence 
supporting the use of dyed linen for anything other than clothing textiles 
in Regia period.  (I could see trying to make a case for a blue-dyed wool 
tent, since we know that wool was regularly dyed blue, but not a linen one.)

>We cannot say for certain that lower-class Anglo-Saxons
>were not using woad for their own clothing. We can, however, say that, given
>the evidence for the period from mainland Europe, and given later
>developments within Britain, it is highly unlikely that they were.

There's evidence for woad seeds in Suffolk in the 9th century, plus woad 
seeds and the physical residue of actual woad dye vats from tenth-century 
York, including the specific bacterium that is responsible for the 
fermentation of a woad vat.  So clearly woad was in use by the 10th 
century, even if it had to be imported from farther south.  But the 
textiles actually dyed blue from York are very few and at the finer end of 
the scale, suggesting that wealthier individuals wore them.  Much more 
common were the madder dyed red textiles, for the production of which 
England was immortalized in an 11th century poem by Winric of Treves.

Phil wrote:

>3)    She also cites a commercial dyer from the US in 1832 saying what a
>difficult process dyeing with woad is. Although the commercial dyer is more
>concerned about consistency of colour, but if it was a difficult process in
>1832 I'd bet a pound to a penny it was a difficult process in 1032!

The reason a US commercial dyer would say that is because he would have 
been accustomed to working with indigo.  Historically, woad was almost 
never used in this country, whereas indigo was one of the earliest cash 
crops introduced into the southern coastal states.  Indigo has the same 
colorant as woad, but in higher concentrations.  Woad requires more dips 
than indigo in order to get the same level of saturated color, so it took 
more time and more effort to work with than indigo.

And Jon wrote:

>Additionally from attempting to produce a purple from madder and woad, over
>dying with woad is tricky and can bleach the initial colour, so the woad dye
>must be the first applied.

I haven't had this experience when working on purples over madder.  Got a 
lovely one last month, by the way, my best ever after many muddy 
results.  Feeling much better about myself now. ;>

However, when working with greens over weld, I've seen the yellow underdye 
fade a bit.  This is no doubt due to the fact that weld is, as the _Journal 
of Dyers and Colourists_ says it, "slightly soluble" in hot water.  My woad 
baths are warm, so I think that's why there's some yellow fall-off when I 
do greens.  (Still, that's never the primary issue when working on 
greens:  the primary issue for me is streakiness.  But I digress.)

>there are several types of black - or shades of black [as
>all good assassins know] and as they fade you find they will turn grey, or
>slightly blue, green or brown.

I'm fond of walnut hulls over woad.  Lovely dark charcoal with a blue 
cast.  Now I don't like actually wearing black, and, as someone pointed 
out, you don't want to have a pile of people all wearing black, but the 
walnut/woad black is one I'd actually consider wearing myself.


Carolyn Priest-Dorman              Þóra Sharptooth
  http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/thora.html