[Regia-NA] Re: list-Regia-NA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 4
Peter Griffith
peter at dutchpond.com
Thu Oct 19 19:10:56 EDT 2006
You are so right about the milk paint in it toughness. I
have refinished furniture in my shop dating early 18th
century on pine and it was almost impossible to clean up.
The company that I deal with does have removers and sealers.
For Regia projects I am sticking to the milk paint. This
is due to the rules that regia has of which I applaud and
the fact that they are period types of paints. Even though
the hues may be limited they are as accurate as I think you
can get.
Check out our paint chart at
www.dutchpond.com
Peter Griffith
Dutch Pond Historical Reproductions
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:52:47 -0400 (EDT),
list-regia-na-request at lig.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Hellp (danemitchell at comcast.net)
> 2. milk paint (Peter Griffith)
> 3. Re: Hellp (Jan Ward)
> 4. Re: list-Regia-NA Digest, Vol 34, Issue 3 (Tracie
> Brown)
> 5. welcome (jim green)
> 6. ship (jim green)
> 7. Re: Hellp (Hazel Uzzell)
> 8. Re: Hellp (mik lawson)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:28:36 +0000
> From: danemitchell at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Hellp
> To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
> Message-ID:
>
<101920061628.16898.4537A7B30006FFA200004202221352857304040A080C9B07030A020E0B at comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Egg-based paints might not survive very well through a
> voyage to Greenland. Great for icons, though.
>
> I was thinking about this a bit more, and with just the
> three primary colors (the ol' color wheel, kids), you can
> theoretically mix any color in the visible spectrum, yes?
> So, would not our ancestors of 1,000 years ago have been
> able to mix any color in the rainbow? Maybe if that was the
> case, then approved color lists become moot. It is a shame
> color photography wasn't around back then, whenever then
> was.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Dane
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Douglas Sunlin" <dsunlin at hotmail.com>
>
> > >From what I understand, milk paints can only be dated
> back a few centuries,
> > while we know that gesso and tempura were in use in the
> 10th-11th centuries.
> > That said, I've been using acrylic. ;)
> >
> > -Osweald
> > <><><> <><><> <><><>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: danemitchell at comcast.net
> > >Reply-To: list-Regia-NA
> > >To: list-Regia-NA
> > >Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Hellp
> > >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:26:23 +0000
> > >
> > >Hazel, if you get a moment, could you discuss not just
> paint colors, but
> > >perhaps more importantly to me, what kinds of paints
> might be correct? My
> > >understanding is there is very little understanding
about
> paints used by
> > >the Anglo Saxons, the Norse, etc. Milk paint doesn't
seem
> to my mind
> > >correct, but what is? What kinds of paints would the
> Norse have used to
> > >docorate and protect exposed woodwork, such as shields,
> longships, etc.?
> > >What could have taken that kind of abuse?
> > >
> > >One thing I took away from my college art history course
> was that the
> > >ancient world was very, very colorful, and those lovely
> white statues we
> > >see in museums were in fact polychromatic, maybe
garishly
> so.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Dane
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >From: "Hazel Uzzell"
> > >
> > > > Hello Peter,
> > > > If you send me your snail mail address off group, I
> will send you
> > >samples
> > > > of paint colours acceptable to Regia. I could scan
> them to you, but I
> > >don't
> > > > trust them to be recreated accurately.
> > > > Hazel Uzzell
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
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> > > > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/480 -
> Release Date:
> > >17/10/2006
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:31:49 +0000 (America/Los_Angeles)
> From: "Peter Griffith" <peter at dutchpond.com>
> Subject: [Regia-NA] milk paint
> To: list-regia-na at lig.net
> Message-ID: <20061019173151.15640.fh044.wm at smtp.sc0.cp.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I think I must clear up a misconception here in that Milk
> Paint takes it's name from what I gather of the orginial
> lime used in the making of the various pigments added to
it.
> It is the same thing as Caesin as goes and does carry
> itself back many centuries but under a different name it
> seems. The basics for milk paint is the same as for making
> up paint of the period. Todays milk paint is a very good
> substitute in my opinion for the way the paint was made
> then. An example of this is the same way some of the paint
> was made to due canvas in the late 18th and 19th century.
> It had to be pliable yet tough to handle the job and wear.
> Today we use Laytex black paint and come up with the same
> durable yet flexable canvas. The use of milk paint is the
> same. Now unless you want to produce the orginial formulas
> for the paint the modern milk paint is the best solution.
> Milk paint (which died out here in the 20th century) was
> reborn with two companies and deliver a very good paint.
> When painted and dried milk paint will give you any of the
> hues that are need for the time period. If you check my
> website at www.dutchpond.com you will see the color chart
> for milk paint and can tell as to what color you need to do
> a specific job. Milk Paint comes out dull when painted and
> will adhere to most surfaces and works best on porus
> materials. There are various coating that can be used to
> protect it even further such as a mixture of olive oil
mixed
> with a drying solution as was done three hundred years ago
> or leave it alone so it will wear naturaly. Our shields
> have the option to be painted with milk paint or laytex and
> covered in a satin finish that will wear down over a short
> period of time to deliver a matte to dull finish. When
> mixed and done right even laytex can do the job you need to
> do. But mixing and doing it right is what it takes. All
in
> my humble opinion.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jan Ward <hawksbluff at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Hellp
> To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
> Message-ID:
> <20061019175131.34973.qmail at web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> It's a fifteenth century book, but "Il Libro dell'
> Arte", by Cennino d'Andrea Cennini, has been
> re-published in an English translation. Look for:
> _The Craftsman's Handbook_, Cennini, trans. Daniel V.
> Thompson, Jr., Dover Books, ISBN 0-486-20054-X.
>
> He tells how to make the actual colors used by
> craftsmen and artists. Also tells how to make oils
> and varnishes and how to gild metal, wood, stone, and
> even cloth. And paint panels and frescos, if you're up
> to that.
>
> It was $6.95 when I bought mine, but it's probably
> gone up (like everything) in price a little.
>
> He also tells how to make hide glue and size and other
> useful stuff.
>
> You can probably mix modern paint to get authentic
> colors, but the materials available to people in a
> specific place and time might not be able to make a
> modern "red, blue and yellow".
>
> Hazel's paint chips will show you what was known to be
> used in Regia's time period.
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:59:21 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Tracie Brown <trbrown at uga.edu>
> Subject: [Regia-NA] Re: list-Regia-NA Digest, Vol 34,
Issue 3
> To: list-regia-na at lig.net
> Message-ID: <20061019145921.AEB31157 at punts5.cc.uga.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > ...while we know that gesso and tempura were in use in
the
> >10th-11th centuries.
>
> Tempura:
> http://www.japan-guide.com/r/e106.html
>
> Tempera:
> http://www.handyart.com/images/tempera.gif
> and how to make it:
> http://www.eggtempera.com/paint.html
>
> I don't have my Theophilus handy, but I seem to remember
> that he mentions linseed and other oil paints and perhaps
> gives recipes. Milk paint, while apparently not
> documentable to the Regia period, is within the technology
> (milk, lime, pigment, maybe some chalk). It has a couple of
> advantages: (1) commercial milk paint is often made using
> natural pigments, and (2) it's &#^$*& impossible to remove
> (it's waterproof and pretty much paint remover proof),
> making it a good choice for hard-wearing items like
shields.
>
> -- Tracie
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:32:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: jim green <aethelwulf2000 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Regia-NA] welcome
> To: list-regia-na at lig.net
> Message-ID:
> <20061019203249.21917.qmail at web52210.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Welcome to both Peter and Joel.I think you will find a
> wealth of both talent and information in regia. Jim
Green
> / Aethelwulf Grimson
>
>
> " A man can never have too much red wine , too many books ,
> or too much ammunition" Rudyard Kipling
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
> From: jim green <aethelwulf2000 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Regia-NA] ship
> To: list-regia-na at lig.net
> Message-ID:
> <20061019203915.5470.qmail at web52214.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Ships just keep being found. Now if only we could find some
> in England. Maybe one of Alfred's? Then we would have more
> comparitive information on how ship building varied between
> Scandinavia and England. I have read that Anglo-Saxon ships
> used a sloghtly domed nail head which was clanched.
> Scandinavia used rivets and roves. I wonder how else they
> varied? Guess I'll have to wait on even more ship finds.
Jim
>
>
>
> " A man can never have too much red wine , too many books ,
> or too much ammunition" Rudyard Kipling
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:38:02 +0100
> From: "Hazel Uzzell" <gythe at snrd.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Hellp
> To: "list-Regia-NA" <list-regia-na at lig.net>
> Message-ID: <00a401c6f3c6$dab99f30$8800a8c0 at Hazel>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> Theophilus:
> Page 27.
> To whiten hide or wood with gypsum. First he gives a recipe
> for making glue
> with stag horn, but I guess cheese glue would work as well.
> Then take some
> gypsum burned in the fashion of lime....and grind it
> carefully on a stone
> with water. Then put it in an earthenware pot, add some
glue
> and place it on
> the fire so that the glue melts. Stir and spread it over
> the hide very
> thinly with a brush. When it is dry, spread a little on
more
> thickly; if
> necessary, spread on a third coat.
> He then goes on to explain that you should polish this
> surface with shave
> grass until it is smooth.
> He follows this with a recipe for varnish.
> I know that some pigments need a specific carrier and that
> several discolour
> with damp and age, so all were not suitable for use.
> I'll have a longer scout about for info. tomorrow.
> Cheers,
> Hazel
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - Release
> Date: 18/10/2006
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:51:19 +0100 (BST)
> From: mik lawson <miklawson at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Hellp
> To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
> Message-ID:
> <20061019215119.71740.qmail at web25413.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There was a program on late night BBC tv where they
> recreated a medievil picture preparing the canvas with
> Gypsum.It's one of those programs i've always regretted not
> recording,along with the recreation of a Medievil Banquet
> involving a gold leaf covered roast swan!
> Regards,
> Mik
>
> Hazel Uzzell <gythe at snrd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Theophilus:
> Page 27.
> To whiten hide or wood with gypsum. First he gives a recipe
> for making glue
> with stag horn, but I guess cheese glue would work as well.
> Then take some
> gypsum burned in the fashion of lime....and grind it
> carefully on a stone
> with water. Then put it in an earthenware pot, add some
glue
> and place it on
> the fire so that the glue melts. Stir and spread it over
the
> hide very
> thinly with a brush. When it is dry, spread a little on
more
> thickly; if
> necessary, spread on a third coat.
> He then goes on to explain that you should polish this
> surface with shave
> grass until it is smooth.
> He follows this with a recipe for varnish.
> I know that some pigments need a specific carrier and that
> several discolour
> with damp and age, so all were not suitable for use.
> I'll have a longer scout about for info. tomorrow.
> Cheers,
> Hazel
>
>
> Heaven doesn't want me & Hell's afraid i'll take
> over!Tari B
> "By a free country, I mean a country where people are
> allowed, As long as they do not hurt their neighbours, To
do
> as they like. I do not mean a country where six men may
make
> five men do exactly as they like". Lord Salisbury (1830 -
> 1903)
> www.saveairsoft.org www.arniesairsoft.co.uk
www.ukasc.net
> http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/ro11ingthunder/
>
>
>
>
>
>
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