[Regia-NA] RE: list-Regia-NA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9
James E. Ellette
ellette at cox.net
Mon Jul 12 12:39:52 EDT 2004
No problem, headache day, not you
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Subject: list-Regia-NA Digest, Vol 7, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Have a Happy.....:-) (John Michalski)
2. Re: Have a Happy.....:-) (Frojel Gotlandica)
3. Re: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-) (marfield66 at sympatico.ca)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Michalski <jmichal2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
Message-ID: <20040705230709.66356.qmail at web54109.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Alternative history should ALWAYS be taken seriously.
We must remember that no past events or current
situations were/are inevitable! ;-)
Anway, I remember that back in the '70s 'Time' did an
alterna-history where the Americans lost the War of
Independence and Washington, Jefferson, et. al. were
nicely hanged.
North America east of the Mississippi and south of the
49th Parallel remained a British Dominion. Bourbon
France, which did not support the Rebels, did not go
broke and did not have a Revolution, would not sell
Louisiana so the middle of the continent stayed
Francais. The west remained Spanish and Alaska
Russian.
An Anglo/French alliance flourished on both sides of
the Atlantic throughout the 19th Century, and Germany,
confronted with such an overwhelming opponent in 1914,
decided to behave. Neither World War happened, and
neither did the Cold War division of Europe.
Seem implausible? Perhaps. But if you think about it,
so does the course of events which actually took place
- IMHO.
John
--- Jack Garrett <garrett at pacbell.net> wrote:
> My two cents on alternative history (All in fun,
> please don't take it seriously.):
>
> - Napoleon Bonaparte is unwilling to sell
> "Louisiana" to the Commonwealth of North America
> (CNA), even if he does need the money desperately.
> France maintains an extended presence in North
> America, including the province of Quebec.
>
> - A radical group using "Liberté, Egalité,
> Fraternité" as a rallying cry, attempts a French
> revolution. Few pay attention and the effort is
> quashed.
>
> - A smaller CNA is less aggressive with Spanish and
> Mexican possessions (no Gadsden Purchase, no battle
> of the Alamo, no Mexican War of 1848, no
> Spanish/American War), with most of the West
> remaining in shifting Spanish/Mexican/French hands.
>
> - Without a US driven by "Manifest Destiny", Alaska
> remains in Russian hands. North American conflict
> drains everybody's treasuries. Continuing
> Russia/China-type border conflicts in the Northwest
> Territories.
>
> - North American borders run North/South rather
> than East/West.
>
> - With Germany left out of costly border wars in
> North America, it wins World War I and occupies
> France. Wine quality deteriorates, but the waiters
> are more courteous.
>
> - Without a ruinous Treaty of Versailles as a
> rallying cry, former Corporal Adolph Hitler has an
> extended career as a wallpaper hanger.
>
> - Jerusalem is established as the capital of
> Palestine. Most of the the Middle East selects the
> 8th century as a governing model.
>
> - Without artificial outside support, oil-producers
> in the Mideast are taken over in time-honored
> European tradition. Production is constantly
> interrupted by border wars.
>
> - Italy remains largely irrelevant. Italians
> continue to create great art and frequent
> governments.
>
> - "Colonial" territories in North America form a
> Union - and squabble about currency for decades.
>
> - Japan occupies most of the Pacific.
>
> - China manufactures everything for everybody.
>
> - Germany puts the first man on the moon.
>
> - Aliens land in ... well, that's enough for now.
>
>
> Jack Garrett
> Regia Anglorum
> North America
>
> J K Siddorn <kim.siddorn at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I too raised a glass to our American friends and
> relations. As revolutions go it was pretty civil.
>
> An interesting "What if ..." for scholars of the
> period is what if representation had accompanied
> taxation? A British
> Empire that included the Commonwealth of North
> America would have been a very different historical
> influence in the
> years that followed.
>
> Comments will be read with great interest at this
> end!
>
> Regards,
>
> Kim Siddorn,
> Regia Anglorum
>
> This e-mail is confidential, legally privileged and
> - unless otherwise stated in the message body - is
> intended for the
> sole attention of the addressee. If you are not this
> person, please do not read, save, re-transmit or
> print the
> information it contains. Views expressed herein may
> or may not be the established policy of Regia
> Anglorum. Unless
> otherwise expressly agreed in writing, nothing
> stated in this communication shall be legally
> binding.
>
> Daily updated anti-virus software was used in the
> generation of this e-mail and any attachments, but
> it is the
> responsibility of the recipient to ensure that their
> incoming mail is virus free.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Garrett"
> To: "list-Regia-NA"
>
> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
>
>
> > Thanks for the kind thought. I've always been
> grateful that our founding fathers could draw upon
> their English
> heritage for inspiration when deciding how to put
> together a new country. Most revolutions leave
> little but discontent
> and corruption on which to build. We started with
> deeply held convictions about law, individual rights
> and the
> limitations of power.
> >
> > Then again, it was useful to take advantage of the
> ongoing antagonism between the English and French to
> manage a
> little independence...
> >
> > Independence and peace to all,
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > Hazel Uzzell wrote:
> > Happy Independence Day to all:-)
> > I sang a chorus of 'Mine Eyes Have Seen...' along
> with the Sally Army on
> > the radio this morning in your honour...I even
> felt moved to take the
> > descant part. Fortunately, Ian was out at a show
> and the cat was safe in her
> > basket behind the door....!:0
> > Hazel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > list-Regia-NA site list
> > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > list-Regia-NA site list
> > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> list-Regia-NA site list
> list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
> > _______________________________________________
> list-Regia-NA site list
> list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:27:08 +1000
From: "Frojel Gotlandica" <frojel at dcsi.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
To: "list-Regia-NA" <list-regia-na at lig.net>
Message-ID: <200407052327.i65NRDnM026546 at grape.dcsi.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You left out
England continues to transport convicts to America and Australia not
discovered untill the 20th century.
LOL.
--Original Message Text---
From: Jack Garrett
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
My two cents on alternative history (All in fun, please don't take it
seriously.):
- Napoleon Bonaparte is unwilling to sell "Louisiana" to the
Commonwealth of North America (CNA),
even if he does need the money desperately. France maintains an
extended presence in North America,
including the province of Quebec.
- A radical group using "Libert‚, Egalit‚, Fraternit‚" as a rallying
cry, attempts a French revolution. Few
pay attention and the effort is quashed.
- A smaller CNA is less aggressive with Spanish and Mexican possessions
(no Gadsden Purchase, no
battle of the Alamo, no Mexican War of 1848, no Spanish/American War),
with most of the West remaining
in shifting Spanish/Mexican/French hands.
- Without a US driven by "Manifest Destiny", Alaska remains in Russian
hands. North American conflict
drains everybody's treasuries. Continuing Russia/China-type border
conflicts in the Northwest Territories.
- North American borders run North/South rather than East/West.
- With Germany left out of costly border wars in North America, it wins
World War I and occupies
France. Wine quality deteriorates, but the waiters are more courteous.
- Without a ruinous Treaty of Versailles as a rallying cry, former
Corporal Adolph Hitler has an extended
career as a wallpaper hanger.
- Jerusalem is established as the capital of Palestine. Most of the
the Middle East selects the 8th century as
a governing model.
- Without artificial outside support, oil-producers in the Mideast are
taken over in time-honored European
tradition. Production is constantly interrupted by border wars.
- Italy remains largely irrelevant. Italians continue to create great
art and frequent governments.
- "Colonial" territories in North America form a Union - and squabble
about currency for decades.
- Japan occupies most of the Pacific.
- China manufactures everything for everybody.
- Germany puts the first man on the moon.
- Aliens land in ... well, that's enough for now.
Jack Garrett
Regia Anglorum
North America
J K Siddorn <kim.siddorn at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
I too raised a glass to our American friends and relations. As
revolutions go it was pretty civil.
An interesting "What if ..." for scholars of the period is what if
representation had accompanied taxation? A
British
Empire that included the Commonwealth of North America would have been a
very different historical
influence in the
years that followed.
Comments will be read with great interest at this end!
Regards,
Kim Siddorn,
Regia Anglorum
This e-mail is confidential, legally privileged and - unless otherwise
stated in the message body - is intended
for the
sole attention of the addressee. If you are not this person, please do
not read, save, re-transmit or print the
information it contains. Views expressed herein may or may not be the
established policy of Regia
Anglorum. Unless
otherwise expressly agreed in writing, noth ing stated in this
communication shall be legally binding.
Daily updated anti-virus software was used in the generation of this
e-mail and any attachments, but it is the
responsibility of the recipient to ensure that their incoming mail is
virus free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Garrett"
To: "list-Regia-NA"
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
> Thanks for the kind thought. I've always been grateful that our
founding fathers could draw upon their
English
heritage for inspiration when deciding how to put together a new
country. Most revolutions leave little but
discontent
and corruption on which to build. We started with deeply held
convictions about law, individual rights and
the
limitations of power.
> Then again, it was useful to take advantage of the ongoing antagonism
between the English and French to
manage a
little independence...
> Independence and peace to all,
> Jack
> Hazel Uzzell wrote:
> Happy Independence Day to all:-)
> I sang a chorus of 'Mine Eyes Have Seen...' along with the Sally Army
on
> the radio this morning in your honour...I even felt moved to take the
> descant part. Fortunately, Ian was out at a show and the cat was safe
in her
> basket behind the door....!:0
> Hazel
> _______________________________________________
> list-Regia-NA site list
> list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> _______________________________________________
> list-Regia-NA site list
> list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
_______________________________________________
list-Regia-NA site list
list-Regia-NA at lig.net
http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
http://www.frojel.com/
frojel at frojel.com
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:18:30 -0400
From: <marfield66 at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
Message-ID:
<20040706021830.HREY19273.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net at mxmta.bellnexxia.net
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I believe the Briish had already privately concluded that the
revolutionary war was unwinnable due to the logistics of transporting
continuous large numbers of troops and equipment ( the longer the supply
lines the greater the risk of interception) and fighting a guerilla war
over such a large area and over an extended time while maintaining a
state of sufficient rediness to combat mainland France at any time.
Martin
>
> From: John Michalski <jmichal2 at yahoo.com>
> Date: 2004/07/05 Mon PM 07:07:09 EST
> To: list-Regia-NA <list-regia-na at lig.net>
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
>
> Alternative history should ALWAYS be taken seriously.
> We must remember that no past events or current
> situations were/are inevitable! ;-)
>
> Anway, I remember that back in the '70s 'Time' did an
> alterna-history where the Americans lost the War of
> Independence and Washington, Jefferson, et. al. were
> nicely hanged.
>
> North America east of the Mississippi and south of the
> 49th Parallel remained a British Dominion. Bourbon
> France, which did not support the Rebels, did not go
> broke and did not have a Revolution, would not sell
> Louisiana so the middle of the continent stayed
> Francais. The west remained Spanish and Alaska
> Russian.
>
> An Anglo/French alliance flourished on both sides of
> the Atlantic throughout the 19th Century, and Germany,
> confronted with such an overwhelming opponent in 1914,
> decided to behave. Neither World War happened, and
> neither did the Cold War division of Europe.
>
> Seem implausible? Perhaps. But if you think about it,
> so does the course of events which actually took place
> - IMHO.
>
> John
>
> --- Jack Garrett <garrett at pacbell.net> wrote:
> > My two cents on alternative history (All in fun,
> > please don't take it seriously.):
> >
> > - Napoleon Bonaparte is unwilling to sell
> > "Louisiana" to the Commonwealth of North America
> > (CNA), even if he does need the money desperately.
> > France maintains an extended presence in North
> > America, including the province of Quebec.
> >
> > - A radical group using "Libert?, Egalit?,
> > Fraternit?" as a rallying cry, attempts a French
> > revolution. Few pay attention and the effort is
> > quashed.
> >
> > - A smaller CNA is less aggressive with Spanish and
> > Mexican possessions (no Gadsden Purchase, no battle
> > of the Alamo, no Mexican War of 1848, no
> > Spanish/American War), with most of the West
> > remaining in shifting Spanish/Mexican/French hands.
> >
> > - Without a US driven by "Manifest Destiny", Alaska
> > remains in Russian hands. North American conflict
> > drains everybody's treasuries. Continuing
> > Russia/China-type border conflicts in the Northwest
> > Territories.
> >
> > - North American borders run North/South rather
> > than East/West.
> >
> > - With Germany left out of costly border wars in
> > North America, it wins World War I and occupies
> > France. Wine quality deteriorates, but the waiters
> > are more courteous.
> >
> > - Without a ruinous Treaty of Versailles as a
> > rallying cry, former Corporal Adolph Hitler has an
> > extended career as a wallpaper hanger.
> >
> > - Jerusalem is established as the capital of
> > Palestine. Most of the the Middle East selects the
> > 8th century as a governing model.
> >
> > - Without artificial outside support, oil-producers
> > in the Mideast are taken over in time-honored
> > European tradition. Production is constantly
> > interrupted by border wars.
> >
> > - Italy remains largely irrelevant. Italians
> > continue to create great art and frequent
> > governments.
> >
> > - "Colonial" territories in North America form a
> > Union - and squabble about currency for decades.
> >
> > - Japan occupies most of the Pacific.
> >
> > - China manufactures everything for everybody.
> >
> > - Germany puts the first man on the moon.
> >
> > - Aliens land in ... well, that's enough for now.
> >
> >
> > Jack Garrett
> > Regia Anglorum
> > North America
> >
> > J K Siddorn <kim.siddorn at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > I too raised a glass to our American friends and
> > relations. As revolutions go it was pretty civil.
> >
> > An interesting "What if ..." for scholars of the
> > period is what if representation had accompanied
> > taxation? A British
> > Empire that included the Commonwealth of North
> > America would have been a very different historical
> > influence in the
> > years that followed.
> >
> > Comments will be read with great interest at this
> > end!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kim Siddorn,
> > Regia Anglorum
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential, legally privileged and
> > - unless otherwise stated in the message body - is
> > intended for the
> > sole attention of the addressee. If you are not this
> > person, please do not read, save, re-transmit or
> > print the
> > information it contains. Views expressed herein may
> > or may not be the established policy of Regia
> > Anglorum. Unless
> > otherwise expressly agreed in writing, nothing
> > stated in this communication shall be legally
> > binding.
> >
> > Daily updated anti-virus software was used in the
> > generation of this e-mail and any attachments, but
> > it is the
> > responsibility of the recipient to ensure that their
> > incoming mail is virus free.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack Garrett"
> > To: "list-Regia-NA"
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Have a Happy.....:-)
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for the kind thought. I've always been
> > grateful that our founding fathers could draw upon
> > their English
> > heritage for inspiration when deciding how to put
> > together a new country. Most revolutions leave
> > little but discontent
> > and corruption on which to build. We started with
> > deeply held convictions about law, individual rights
> > and the
> > limitations of power.
> > >
> > > Then again, it was useful to take advantage of the
> > ongoing antagonism between the English and French to
> > manage a
> > little independence...
> > >
> > > Independence and peace to all,
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > > Hazel Uzzell wrote:
> > > Happy Independence Day to all:-)
> > > I sang a chorus of 'Mine Eyes Have Seen...' along
> > with the Sally Army on
> > > the radio this morning in your honour...I even
> > felt moved to take the
> > > descant part. Fortunately, Ian was out at a show
> > and the cat was safe in her
> > > basket behind the door....!:0
> > > Hazel
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > list-Regia-NA site list
> > > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > list-Regia-NA site list
> > > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > list-Regia-NA site list
> > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
> > > _______________________________________________
> > list-Regia-NA site list
> > list-Regia-NA at lig.net
> > http://lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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>
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