[Regia-NA] FW: Re: Axe loops and authenticity

Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:44:17 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EC9C.11737A74
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 Thanks Gu=F0rum!
=20
hmmm, this 'cosie' info is all new to me, i am glad i asked
=20
Halvgrimr
Robb
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicholson, Andrew [mailto:andrew.nicholson@dumgal.gov.uk]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:38 AM
To: Regia NA (E-mail)
Subject: [Regia-NA] FW: Re: Axe loops and authenticity

Here is Roll's response. [Incidental to a different thread, Roll took =
over as AO from Sarah Doyle, another archaeologist in Galweg].
=20
Gu=F0rum
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Yolli [mailto:yolli@lineone.net]
Sent: 14 March 2003 12:00
To: regia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further thoughts)

Yep as Steve says, there are axe 'cosies' in the Landesmuseer Schleswig =
of wood. They are slightly banana shaped and have a groove or slot down =
their edge to accept the blade of the axe. In addition they have little =
holes or slots for presumably thongs to anchor the device to the blade =
or haft. Nicely for us, they do date to the end of the 11th century as I =
recall.

A folded piece of thick leather is what I have on my working axes - any =
sewing is just another spot that can come adrift if it's near a sharp =
edge.

If I were still AO, I would institute a ban on axe rings and loops and =
insist that if they are to be carried into battle, then they must be =
placed through the belt - and I would suggest also that the best place =
to secrete them is behind your hip/back area.

The axe is a very 'thuggish' weapon though - not thugee note. I can see =
any self respecting thegn distancing himself from such a device in war - =
not that he wouldn't know how to use it though.

As Steve mentions, they are very common in the Harley Psalter - almost =
as if the artist had a thing about them.

Hmmm, scrams blunt near the hilt - well the collection in the MoL which =
has about 20 or so in it of various sizes would say no, never. And from =
what I've seen in the BM they too are very sharp all the way up the =
blade.

Now that makes me recall a weird scene from my past ( Kim... ). We did a =
show at Plas Coch on Anglesey in 1980 or 81. Some sap was selected to =
wear a helmet in the great helm style. The great leader of the NFPS was =
a very stout chap by the name of Gerry East who was to beat this guy =
down and bury a small hand axe into the top of the helm which was made =
of timber.

All went fairly to plan until the 'death blow' was to be struck. The =
great leader was not that fit and knelt to gain his breath whilst the =
sap gripped his helm and made swaying motions as if knocked around and =
punch drunk. Gerry tried to reach for the axe in his belt  - which he =
couldn't as his amazing girth got in the way - his arms were no longer =
long enough to reach round his bulk. He got there in the end with a =
little aid and delivered the 'killing' blow whilst we all laughed and =
shook our heads.

That was the same day we fought through blazing bales of straw and had =
one on a pole lobbed at us.=20

Hardest job in the world being a Viking in the 80's.

Roll.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Jason Finch" <jasonfinch@lycos.co.uk>
To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further thoughts)

> >Ah! Now you are really talking! Ban the short hafted hand axe as a=20
> field
> >weapon? What provenance do we have for axes being used as=20
> primary or
> >secondary weapons?
>=20
>=20
> Ok, so maybe I'm losing the plot (it's been a bad week) but is this=20
> serious or just a bit of Friday demob humour from Kim?
>=20
> Lindisfarne Stone-front two figures are carrying and waving above =
their=20
> heads what appear for all the world to be short hafted hand axes Or is =

> it second and third figures?  (I'm doing this from memory)
>=20
> Jason
> Haestingas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=09

ADVERTISEMENT
 =
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D245454.2994396.4323964.2848452/D=3Degroupweb/S=3D=
1707208997:HM/A=3D1457554/R=3D0/*http://ipunda.com/clk/beibunmaisuiyuiwab=
ei> =09
  =
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D245454.2994396.4323964.2848452/D=3Deg=
roupmail/S=3D:HM/A=3D1457554/rand=3D388690955> =09

For more information: http://www.regia.org/=20
Post message: regia@yahoogroups.com=20
Subscribe:  email regia-owner@yahoogroups.com - saying who you are and =
which group
Unsubscribe:  regia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=20
List owner:  regia-owner@yahoogroups.com=20
Group documents at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regia/files/Documents/
Regia@yahoogroups.com - Is there any alternative?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of =
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EC9C.11737A74
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>&nbsp;Thanks Gu=F0rum!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>hmmm,=20
this 'cosie' info is all new to me, i am glad i =
asked</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Halvgrimr</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Robb</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958014315-17032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
 <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>-----Original Message----- From: Nicholson, Andrew=20
 [mailto:andrew.nicholson@dumgal.gov.uk] Sent: Monday, March =
17, 2003=20
 9:38 AM To: Regia NA (E-mail) Subject: [Regia-NA] =
FW: Re:=20
 Axe loops and authenticity </DIV>
 <DIV>Here=20
 is Roll's response. [Incidental to a different thread, Roll took over =
as AO=20
 from Sarah Doyle, another archaeologist in =
Galweg].</DIV>
 <DIV><SPAN=20
 class=3D018003915-17032003>&nbsp;</DIV>
 <DIV><SPAN=20
 class=3D018003915-17032003>Gu=F0rum</DIV>
 <DIV><SPAN=20
 class=3D018003915-17032003>&nbsp;</DIV>
 <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>-----Original Message----- From: Yolli=20
 [mailto:yolli@lineone.net] Sent: 14 March 2003 =
12:00 To:=20
 regia@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops =
(further=20
 thoughts) </DIV><TT>Yep as Steve says, there are axe =
'cosies' in=20
 the Landesmuseer Schleswig of wood. They are slightly banana shaped =
and have a=20
 groove or slot down their edge to accept the blade of the axe. In =
addition=20
 they have little holes or slots for presumably thongs to anchor the =
device to=20
 the blade or haft. Nicely for us, they do date to the end of the 11th =
century=20
 as I recall. A folded piece of thick leather is what I have on =
my=20
 working axes - any sewing is just another spot that can come adrift if =
it's=20
 near a sharp edge. If I were still AO, I would institute a ban =
on axe=20
 rings and loops and insist that if they are to be carried into battle, =
then=20
 they must be placed through the belt - and I would suggest also that =
the best=20
 place to secrete them is behind your hip/back area. The axe is =
a very=20
 'thuggish' weapon though - not thugee note. I can see any self =
respecting=20
 thegn distancing himself from such a device in war - not that he =
wouldn't know=20
 how to use it though. As Steve mentions, they are very common =
in the=20
 Harley Psalter - almost as if the artist had a thing about =
them. Hmmm,=20
 scrams blunt near the hilt - well the collection in the MoL which has =
about 20=20
 or so in it of various sizes would say no, never. And from what I've =
seen in=20
 the BM they too are very sharp all the way up the blade. Now =
that makes=20
 me recall a weird scene from my past ( Kim... ). We did a show at Plas =
Coch on=20
 Anglesey in 1980 or 81. Some sap was selected to wear a helmet in the =
great=20
 helm style. The great leader of the NFPS was a very stout chap by the =
name of=20
 Gerry East who was to beat this guy down and bury a small hand axe =
into the=20
 top of the helm which was made of timber. All went fairly to =
plan until=20
 the 'death blow' was to be struck. The great leader was not that fit =
and knelt=20
 to gain his breath whilst the sap gripped his helm and made swaying =
motions as=20
 if knocked around and punch drunk. Gerry tried to reach for the axe in =
his=20
 belt&nbsp; - which he couldn't as his amazing girth got in the way - =
his arms=20
 were no longer long enough to reach round his bulk. He got there in =
the end=20
 with a little aid and delivered the 'killing' blow whilst we all =
laughed and=20
 shook our heads. That was the same day we fought through =
blazing bales=20
 of straw and had one on a pole lobbed at us. Hardest job in =
the world=20
 being a Viking in the 80's. Roll. ----- =
Original=20
 Message ----- From: "Jason Finch" =
&lt;jasonfinch@lycos.co.uk&gt; To:=20
 &lt;regia@yahoogroups.com&gt; Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:13=20
 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further =
thoughts) &gt;=20
 &gt;Ah! Now you are really talking! Ban the short hafted hand axe as a =

  <BR>&gt; field<BR>&gt; &gt;weapon? What provenance do we have for axes =
being=20
  used as <BR>&gt; primary or<BR>&gt; &gt;secondary weapons?<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; Ok, so maybe I'm losing the plot (it's been a bad week) but =
is this=20
  <BR>&gt; serious or just a bit of Friday demob humour from =
Kim?<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; Lindisfarne Stone-front two figures are carrying and waving =
above=20
  their <BR>&gt; heads what appear for all the world to be short hafted =
hand=20
  axes Or is <BR>&gt; it second and third figures?&nbsp; (I'm doing this =
from=20
  memory)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jason<BR>&gt; =
Haestingas<BR><BR><BR><BR>[Non-text=20
  portions of this message have been removed]<BR><BR></TT><BR><!-- =
|**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
  <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 border=3D0>
    <TBODY>
    <TR bgColor=3D#ffffcc>
      <TD align=3Dmiddle><FONT color=3D#003399 size=3D-1><B>Yahoo! =
Groups=20
        Sponsor</B></FONT></TD></TR>
    <TR bgColor=3D#ffffff>
      <TD align=3Dmiddle width=3D470>
        <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
          <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD align=3Dmiddle><FONT face=3Darial=20
              size=3D-2>ADVERTISEMENT</FONT><BR><A=20
              =
href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D245454.2994396.4323964.2848452/D=3Degroup=
web/S=3D1707208997:HM/A=3D1457554/R=3D0/*http://ipunda.com/clk/beibunmais=
uiyuiwabei"><IMG=20
              height=3D250 alt=3D""=20
              =
src=3D"http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/qu/quinstreet/uofpoff_300_250_=
0001.gif"=20
              width=3D300 border=3D0 =
NOSEND=3D"1"></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
    <TR>
      <TD><IMG height=3D1 alt=3D""=20
        =
src=3D"http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D245454.2994396.4323964.2848452/=
D=3Degroupmail/S=3D:HM/A=3D1457554/rand=3D388690955"=20
        width=3D1 NOSEND=3D"1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- |**|end =
egp html banner|**| --><BR><TT>For=20
  more information: <A =
href=3D"http://www.regia.org/">http://www.regia.org/</A>=20
  <BR>Post message: regia@yahoogroups.com <BR>Subscribe:&nbsp; email=20
  regia-owner@yahoogroups.com - saying who you are and which=20
  group<BR>Unsubscribe:&nbsp; regia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <BR>List =

  owner:&nbsp; regia-owner@yahoogroups.com <BR>Group documents at: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regia/files/Documents/">http://grou=
ps.yahoo.com/group/regia/files/Documents/</A><BR>Regia@yahoogroups.com=20
  - Is there any alternative?<BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your use of Yahoo! =
Groups is=20
  subject to the <A href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! =
Terms of=20
  Service</A>.</TT> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2EC9C.11737A74--