[Regia-NA] FW: Re: Axe loops and authenticity
Nicholson, Andrew
list-regia-na@lig.net
Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0000
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Here is Roll's response. [Incidental to a different thread, Roll took =
over
as AO from Sarah Doyle, another archaeologist in Galweg].
=20
Gu=F0rum
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Yolli [mailto:yolli@lineone.net]
Sent: 14 March 2003 12:00
To: regia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further thoughts)
Yep as Steve says, there are axe 'cosies' in the Landesmuseer Schleswig =
of
wood. They are slightly banana shaped and have a groove or slot down =
their
edge to accept the blade of the axe. In addition they have little holes =
or
slots for presumably thongs to anchor the device to the blade or haft.
Nicely for us, they do date to the end of the 11th century as I recall.
A folded piece of thick leather is what I have on my working axes - any
sewing is just another spot that can come adrift if it's near a sharp =
edge.
If I were still AO, I would institute a ban on axe rings and loops and
insist that if they are to be carried into battle, then they must be =
placed
through the belt - and I would suggest also that the best place to =
secrete
them is behind your hip/back area.
The axe is a very 'thuggish' weapon though - not thugee note. I can see =
any
self respecting thegn distancing himself from such a device in war - =
not
that he wouldn't know how to use it though.
As Steve mentions, they are very common in the Harley Psalter - almost =
as if
the artist had a thing about them.
Hmmm, scrams blunt near the hilt - well the collection in the MoL which =
has
about 20 or so in it of various sizes would say no, never. And from =
what
I've seen in the BM they too are very sharp all the way up the blade.
Now that makes me recall a weird scene from my past ( Kim... ). We did =
a
show at Plas Coch on Anglesey in 1980 or 81. Some sap was selected to =
wear a
helmet in the great helm style. The great leader of the NFPS was a very
stout chap by the name of Gerry East who was to beat this guy down and =
bury
a small hand axe into the top of the helm which was made of timber.
All went fairly to plan until the 'death blow' was to be struck. The =
great
leader was not that fit and knelt to gain his breath whilst the sap =
gripped
his helm and made swaying motions as if knocked around and punch drunk.
Gerry tried to reach for the axe in his belt - which he couldn't as =
his
amazing girth got in the way - his arms were no longer long enough to =
reach
round his bulk. He got there in the end with a little aid and delivered =
the
'killing' blow whilst we all laughed and shook our heads.
That was the same day we fought through blazing bales of straw and had =
one
on a pole lobbed at us.=20
Hardest job in the world being a Viking in the 80's.
Roll.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Jason Finch" <jasonfinch@lycos.co.uk>
To: <regia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further thoughts)
> >Ah! Now you are really talking! Ban the short hafted hand axe as a=20
> field
> >weapon? What provenance do we have for axes being used as=20
> primary or
> >secondary weapons?
>=20
>=20
> Ok, so maybe I'm losing the plot (it's been a bad week) but is this=20
> serious or just a bit of Friday demob humour from Kim?
>=20
> Lindisfarne Stone-front two figures are carrying and waving above =
their=20
> heads what appear for all the world to be short hafted hand axes Or =
is=20
> it second and third figures? (I'm doing this from memory)
>=20
> Jason
> Haestingas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D018003915-17032003>Here=20
is Roll's response. [Incidental to a different thread, Roll took over =
as AO from=20
Sarah Doyle, another archaeologist in Galweg].</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D018003915-17032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D018003915-17032003>Gu=F0rum</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D018003915-17032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Yolli=20
[mailto:yolli@lineone.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 14 March 2003 =
12:00<BR><B>To:</B>=20
regia@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops =
(further=20
thoughts)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><TT>Yep as Steve says, there are axe =
'cosies' in=20
the Landesmuseer Schleswig of wood. They are slightly banana shaped and =
have a=20
groove or slot down their edge to accept the blade of the axe. In =
addition they=20
have little holes or slots for presumably thongs to anchor the device =
to the=20
blade or haft. Nicely for us, they do date to the end of the 11th =
century as I=20
recall.<BR><BR>A folded piece of thick leather is what I have on my =
working axes=20
- any sewing is just another spot that can come adrift if it's near a =
sharp=20
edge.<BR><BR>If I were still AO, I would institute a ban on axe rings =
and loops=20
and insist that if they are to be carried into battle, then they must =
be placed=20
through the belt - and I would suggest also that the best place to =
secrete them=20
is behind your hip/back area.<BR><BR>The axe is a very 'thuggish' =
weapon though=20
- not thugee note. I can see any self respecting thegn distancing =
himself from=20
such a device in war - not that he wouldn't know how to use it =
though.<BR><BR>As=20
Steve mentions, they are very common in the Harley Psalter - almost as =
if the=20
artist had a thing about them.<BR><BR>Hmmm, scrams blunt near the hilt =
- well=20
the collection in the MoL which has about 20 or so in it of various =
sizes would=20
say no, never. And from what I've seen in the BM they too are very =
sharp all the=20
way up the blade.<BR><BR>Now that makes me recall a weird scene from my =
past (=20
Kim... ). We did a show at Plas Coch on Anglesey in 1980 or 81. Some =
sap was=20
selected to wear a helmet in the great helm style. The great leader of =
the NFPS=20
was a very stout chap by the name of Gerry East who was to beat this =
guy down=20
and bury a small hand axe into the top of the helm which was made of=20
timber.<BR><BR>All went fairly to plan until the 'death blow' was to be =
struck.=20
The great leader was not that fit and knelt to gain his breath whilst =
the sap=20
gripped his helm and made swaying motions as if knocked around and =
punch drunk.=20
Gerry tried to reach for the axe in his belt - which he couldn't =
as his=20
amazing girth got in the way - his arms were no longer long enough to =
reach=20
round his bulk. He got there in the end with a little aid and delivered =
the=20
'killing' blow whilst we all laughed and shook our heads.<BR><BR>That =
was the=20
same day we fought through blazing bales of straw and had one on a pole =
lobbed=20
at us. <BR><BR>Hardest job in the world being a Viking in the=20
80's.<BR><BR><BR>Roll.<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- =
<BR>From:=20
"Jason Finch" <jasonfinch@lycos.co.uk><BR>To:=20
<regia@yahoogroups.com><BR>Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:13=20
AM<BR>Subject: Re: Re: [Regia] Axe loops (further =
thoughts)<BR><BR><BR>>=20
>Ah! Now you are really talking! Ban the short hafted hand axe as a =
<BR>>=20
field<BR>> >weapon? What provenance do we have for axes being =
used as=20
<BR>> primary or<BR>> >secondary weapons?<BR>> <BR>> =
<BR>> Ok,=20
so maybe I'm losing the plot (it's been a bad week) but is this =
<BR>> serious=20
or just a bit of Friday demob humour from Kim?<BR>> <BR>> =
Lindisfarne=20
Stone-front two figures are carrying and waving above their <BR>> =
heads what=20
appear for all the world to be short hafted hand axes Or is <BR>> it =
second=20
and third figures? (I'm doing this from memory)<BR>> <BR>>=20
Jason<BR>> Haestingas<BR><BR><BR><BR>[Non-text portions of this =
message have=20
been removed]<BR><BR></TT><BR><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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