[Regia-NA] Textile Questions answered - Long

Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:46:51 -0000

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Dear =C6dwen (and all - I am answering =C6dwen on the Regia net as her =
questions and answers may be useful to everyone)

First of all congratulations on your research! You have actually done =
most of my job for me and correctly answered your own questions - but =
for the record, here are my additions!

I appreciate your offer to answer questions for me. I've know you were =
the textile co-ordinator for Regia for some time, but I've been afraid =
to contact you. I'm mortally fearful that I'm missing huge gaps in my =
textile knowledge and I will look foolish, but since you have kindly =
offered, I'm taking the plunge and asking any ways. If it's OK with you, =
I'm going right back to basics, just so I'm not making any assumptions I =
shouldn't.

I guess most of my questions revolve around what is acceptable to Regia =
standards.

My first, most basic question is: Does Regia require all garments to be =
hand-woven? My answer to this would be no, since there is no mention of =
it in the handbook and most of the photos I've seen do not appear to be =
hand-woven.

No, Regia doesn't require any garments to be handwoven .... what luxury =
that would be! Some members have indeed made cloth from 'scratch' spun, =
dyed and woven by themselves, but as this is a weekend hobby for most of =
us, there just isn't the time.

Does Regia require garments to be hand sewn? I think this one can be =
answered with: Regia requires visible seams to be hand finished.

Personally, I would rather that garments were hand sewn. Somehow you =
just feel better about a garment that you have sewn yourself! That said, =
Regia accepts machining on seams that definitely will not be on show =
(bearing in mind that members of the public are quite capable of picking =
up the skirt of your dress to peer at the side seam.) I even had someone =
who sniffed my sleeve (he worked in a dye factory) when I told him it =
was dyed with madder. All seams must be neatened and not left raw.

What stitches and finishing techniques are acceptable? My research would =
indicate that there are 4 basic sewing stitches: running stitch, blanket =
(button hole) stitch, overcast (whip) stitch, and herringbone stitch =
(primarily a decorative stitch) My research would also indicate that to =
finish a garment you simply use combinations of these stitches. Flat =
felled, with a whip stitch, a blanket stitch, or a running stitch. =
Folding the seams in towards each other and whip or blanket stitch. Or =
folding the seams out and under and whip, running, or blanket stitching =
them. All of these techniques appear, and I think it has a lot to do =
with what you were taught, as well as the type of fabric being finished.

Fantastic answer! In addition to those you mention, some silk edges =
(from Ireland) were rolled. Seams were sometimes 'inlaid' or covered =
with a piece of yarn couched along the seam on the right side for =
strengthening (or magic protection?)

What thread must be used? I tend to use a couple of natural (oatmeal) =
coloured plied linen thread for my garments. Very strong and quite nice =
to sew with. I do, however, understand that it would be more period to =
use thread to match the fabric being sewn. This would be a good use of =
thrums.

If you are sewing linen, use linen thread. If wool, use woolen thread. I =
tend to go for the same colour as the cloth, but it doesn't matter. Some =
seams were visible and appear to have been used as a decoration. If you =
can, use threads from the cloth you are sewing - but I know that is not =
always possible. If you have woven the cloth yourself, of course you =
would want to use up the warp wastage (thrums).

Must the garments be hand finished with bone, rather than steel needles? =
I suppose if I could get a good iron or copper needle that was like the =
one found at Coppergate, I could use this. I would assume that this =
would only need to be done if I was sewing on the LHE.

No you do not need to use only bone needles - there were iron, or more =
easily used, bronze. If you are rich - silver perhaps? We use authentic =
needles on the LHE (I would hope!) but if you are sewing at home, it =
doesn't matter.

I have your article on DMC equivalents to period dyes, and have been =
using them as a guideline for colours. It's almost impossible to get an =
absolute colour match using modern commercially available fabrics. When =
in doubt I try to match the tonal qualities of the sample and go =
lighter, if possible. My thoughts are that many thing effect the colour =
you get from natural dyes, and that it would be easier to go lighter, =
just by adding less colourant. Is this correct? My husband, who will be =
flying in for Shrewsbury, will bringing a set along, just to make sure =
there have been no mistakes in my implementation or when Joy retyped =
your article.

Your thoughts on dye equivalents are true. It is hard to match up a =
chemical dye with a plant dye. There is just that certain quality about =
plant dyes that is different. An exhausted dye bath would give you =
progressively lighter shades, so that is OK. I will be giving a talk at =
Shrewsbury on Sunday morning and I hope to see your husband there! (I =
will be there all weekend so if there are any other questions he can =
talk to me anytime)

Does Regia require that the sett of the fabric used, be within period =
specifications? (Granted this is a wide range) I actually have a harder =
time finding things on the coarse side of period (about 6 or 8 tpc than =
I do with the finer 12 to 15 or more tpc)

We try to stay within the range of the sett for our period (warp/weft =
count) but like you, we have difficulties here as well. We have a few =
cloth suppliers who attend our re-enactors fairs who are pretty good and =
we usually say to new members, get a snip of the cloth and show it to =
someone who knows. I often get bits of cloth sent to me in the post so =
that I can say 'yes' or 'no'. What you need to do is 'get your eye in' =
for something that looks and feels right. If you can find good bits, =
carry snips around with you. (Mr Ali who sells linen cloth will be at =
Shrewsbury)

Does Regia require that all fabrics be of a period weave? If so, I =
believe we can document tabby, basket weave, and the 1/2 and 2/2 twills =
including: herringbone, chevron, and diamond. Yes?

We do stick to the period weaves, and you have named them.

Does Regia require that all fabric be woven with singles? More =
difficult, but not impossible to so with commercial fabrics. If so, do =
they require that they be of Z twist?

No, we do not require cloth to be woven with singles and even though Z =
twist was more common, we do not insist on that.

Does Regia allow for 'plaid' fabric? I have seen evidence of striped =
warps, but nothing to indicate a pick of colour in the weft. (Granted =
some of the samples are so small that we may just be seeing the part =
without the stripe)

This is a vexed subject! At one stage, no patterned cloth was allowed. =
This was because people tended to go a bit mad (the 'car rug' =
syndrome!). Now we allow stripes and checks within reason.=20

Does Regia allow for fabrics that are not 100% natural fabric? For =
instance, if I have a piece of fabric that appears to the naked eye to =
be wool, but is in fact 85% wool and 15% nylon can it be used. (The =
nylon will appear under a magnifying glass.) What about things that are =
good 'linen look'. Or a wool/silk blend that looks like wool?

It isn't always possible to get fabric that is 100% natural. Here good =
linen is expensive, so we allow a mix of synthetic as long as it looks =
like the real thing. (Remember, you are more likely to go up in flames =
in synthetic!)

Does Regia allow for coloured linen to be used? I know that linen =
doesn't take a dye the same way that wool does, and would therefore be =
more expensive to dye. If it can be used, can it be used for all ranks? =
If so, should we be using the same colour cards?

We use coloured linen. I have dyed linen with madder, woad and weld. The =
woad and weld come out every bit as good as on wool. The madder was a =
bit paler. What I do not like to see is bright blue/white linen. It just =
doesn't look naturally bleached. I would prefer low ranks to used =
bleached or unbleached linen instead of coloured - but that ain't gonna =
happen!!=20

The pattern for clothing in the handbook, is less specific than I'd =
like. I assume that garments should be cut in geometric pieces, similar =
to the tunic found at Birka and on the Bocksten Bog man. Can we omit the =
front gussets? (I'm sure there is a tunic found without the front =
gussets, but for the life of me I can't remember which one it is.)

Geometric pieces make for easier fitting when passing your clothes on to =
someone else. With regard to front panels or gussets. There are examples =
from 12C and 13C with front gussets on tunics (apparently not always set =
in dead centre ... poor tailoring?). These are the same colour as the =
tunic. The Mammen tunic (970-971AD) would seem to have had a centre =
gusset - at least that is how it has been re-constructed in the National =
Museum in Copenhagen. I do know of some people in Regia with centre =
gussets in their tunics, but you can omit them as you can also omit side =
gussets.=20

Can we use keyhole neckline, such as those found in the Bayeux tapestry?

Yes, you can use keyhole necklines - also round and square.

I think that may be it for textiles, but I'd like to ask you something =
about embellishing your garments.

>From reading the handbook it would appear that both trim and embroidery =
are acceptable.=20

To talk on trim: When weaving trim, can we use both tablets and a =
horizontal loom?

Trim and embroidery are acceptable for high ranking people. You can use =
a tablet loom for narrow trim. We have very little evidence for =
horizontal looms from the early part of Regia's period. Slightly more =
for later. However, any narrow trim that you can weave on a horizontal =
loom can be woven on either a tablet loom or a warp weighted loom.

I assume that we should use colours found on the colour cards.

Use the colours on the colour cards for wool or linen and silk thread =
embroidery. Don't forget, if you are a high member of the church or a =
high ranking secular, you can have couched gold thread.=20

What fibers are acceptable to use? Wool and linen, I'd assume. Silk for =
high end?

Wool, linen, silk and gold thread.

Do we need to try to keep the fiber diameters within period specs?=20

It would be good to keep fibres within period specs, but so little =
secular Anglo-Saxon embroidery has been found! Silk used for embroidery =
had usually not a lot of twist or even non.

Do the trims made on a horizontal loom need to be made with singles, =
which I believe are far more common then plied in period, though plies =
are not unknown.=20

I've read that if you try to use singles with a tablet loom, that they =
will unspin themselves and that plied fibers where used in this way in =
period. Is this correct?=20

Machine spun singles work OK on a tablet loom - I'm doing some at the =
moment. As for plied fibres - machine plied do work - I haven't tried =
hand plied. Anyone else know?

On to embroidery:

Again, use wool and linen, maybe a little bit of silk. Use the colours =
as outlined on the colour charts.

What motifs are acceptable? Do we simply look at other period sources, =
such as manuscripts, architecture, and the Bayeux tapestry and take =
elements from that?

Motifs. Now there's a question! The only Anglo-Saxon secular embroidery =
that we have are small pieces of vine scroll, and on the Llangorst =
textiles, inhabited vine scroll with what appear to be peacocks and =
bunches of grapes. This last could be counted thread embroidery, or, =
some experts think the design may be woven in the cloth. The jury is out =
.......... Viking motifs - well, you couldn't do better than look at =
http://www.cs.vasar.edu/~capriest/vikresource.html=20

viking embroidery stitches and motifs. And there are also the Oseberg =
textiles. These motifs are mostly couched circles - rather like the =
Olympic Games motif - with small backward facing quadrupeds in them. =
They also used strips of decorative silk sewn into their clothes.

Do you embroider right on the fabric, or on a contrasting colour which =
is then applied to the garment?

We should, I think, embroider on separate cloth and sew that onto the =
garment. When the garment wore out - or was passed on, then the =
embroidery could be removed and re-used, as with the Masseik =
Embroideries.

Where should the embroidery go? Any provenance for embroidered keyhole =
necklines?

Where to put the embroidery - well this is a pet theory of mine - on the =
garment openings as protection(??) - wrist, neck and hem. There is also =
evidence (manuscript) for a strip of decoration down the front from =
centre neck to hem. Possibly the seams were also decorated.=20

Can we simply decorate with embroidery 'medallions'? One element, then a =
large gap, and then another element? Or must the embroidery all join =
together?

If you use the Bayeux Tapestry as an exemplar, isolated medallions would =
seem to be OK - but remember, these may be representations of Byzantine =
silks

The Regia webite has a good list of period stitches that can be used, so =
I've got that.

That is all that I can think of now. Thank you again for taking the time =
to answer my questions.

=C6dwen
-Wynmerestow

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Dear =C6dwen (and all - I am answering =C6dwen on the Regia net as =
her questions=20
and answers may be useful to everyone)
First of all congratulations on your research! You have actually done =
most of=20
my job for me and correctly answered your own questions - but for the =
record,=20
here are my additions!
I appreciate your offer to answer questions for me. I've know you =
were the=20
textile co-ordinator for Regia for some time, but I've been afraid to =
contact=20
you. I'm mortally fearful that I'm missing huge gaps in my textile =
knowledge and=20
I will look foolish, but since you have kindly offered, I'm taking the =
plunge=20
and asking any ways. If it's OK with you, I'm going right back to =
basics, just=20
so I'm not making any assumptions I shouldn't. I guess most of my =

questions revolve around what is acceptable to Regia =
standards. My first,=20
most basic question is: Does Regia require all garments to be =
hand-woven? My=20
answer to this would be no, since there is no mention of it in the =
handbook and=20
most of the photos I've seen do not appear to be hand-woven.<FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>
No, Regia doesn=92t require any garments to be handwoven .... what =
luxury that=20
would be! Some members have indeed made cloth from =91scratch=92 spun, =
dyed and=20
woven by themselves, but as this is a weekend hobby for most of us, =
there just=20
isn=92t the time. Does Regia require garments to be hand =
sewn? I=20
think this one can be answered with: Regia requires visible seams to be =
hand=20
finished. 
Personally, I would rather that garments were hand sewn. Somehow you =
just=20
feel better about a garment that you have sewn yourself! That said, =
Regia=20
accepts machining on seams that definitely will not be on show (bearing =
in mind=20
that members of the public are quite capable of picking up the skirt of =
your=20
dress to peer at the side seam.) I even had someone who sniffed my =
sleeve (he=20
worked in a dye factory) when I told him it was dyed with madder. All =
seams must=20
be neatened and not left raw.
 What stitches and finishing techniques are acceptable? My =
research would=20
indicate that there are 4 basic sewing stitches: running stitch, blanket =
(button=20
hole) stitch, overcast (whip) stitch, and herringbone stitch (primarily =
a=20
decorative stitch) My research would also indicate that to finish a =
garment you=20
simply use combinations of these stitches. Flat felled, with a whip =
stitch, a=20
blanket stitch, or a running stitch. Folding the seams in towards each =
other and=20
whip or blanket stitch. Or folding the seams out and under and whip, =
running, or=20
blanket stitching them. All of these techniques appear, and I think it =
has a lot=20
to do with what you were taught, as well as the type of fabric being=20
finished. 
Fantastic answer! In addition to those you mention, some silk edges =
(from=20
Ireland) were rolled. Seams were sometimes =91inlaid=92 or covered with =
a piece of=20
yarn couched along the seam on the right side for strengthening (or =
magic=20
protection?)
 What thread must be used? I tend to use a couple of natural =
(oatmeal)=20
coloured plied linen thread for my garments. Very strong and quite nice =
to sew=20
with. I do, however, understand that it would be more period to use =
thread to=20
match the fabric being sewn. This would be a good use of =
thrums. <FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>
If you are sewing linen, use linen thread. If wool, use woolen =
thread. I tend=20
to go for the same colour as the cloth, but it doesn=92t matter. Some =
seams were=20
visible and appear to have been used as a decoration. If you can, use =
threads=20
from the cloth you are sewing - but I know that is not always possible. =
If you=20
have woven the cloth yourself, of course you would want to use up the =
warp=20
wastage (thrums).
 Must the garments be hand finished with bone, rather than steel =
needles?=20
I suppose if I could get a good iron or copper needle that was like the =
one=20
found at Coppergate, I could use this. I would assume that this would =
only need=20
to be done if I was sewing on the LHE. 
No you do not need to use only bone needles - there were iron, or =
more easily=20
used, bronze. If you are rich - silver perhaps? We use authentic needles =
on the=20
LHE (I would hope!) but if you are sewing at home, it doesn=92t =
matter.
 I have your article on DMC equivalents to period dyes, and have =
been=20
using them as a guideline for colours. It's almost impossible to get an =
absolute=20
colour match using modern commercially available fabrics. When in doubt =
I try to=20
match the tonal qualities of the sample and go lighter, if possible. My =
thoughts=20
are that many thing effect the colour you get from natural dyes, and =
that it=20
would be easier to go lighter, just by adding less colourant. Is this =
correct?=20
My husband, who will be flying in for Shrewsbury, will bringing a set =
along,=20
just to make sure there have been no mistakes in my implementation or =
when Joy=20
retyped your article. 
Your thoughts on dye equivalents are true. It is hard to match up a =
chemical=20
dye with a plant dye. There is just that certain quality about plant =
dyes that=20
is different. An exhausted dye bath would give you progressively lighter =
shades,=20
so that is OK. I will be giving a talk at Shrewsbury on Sunday morning =
and I=20
hope to see your husband there! (I will be there all weekend so if there =
are any=20
other questions he can talk to me anytime)
 Does Regia require that the sett of the fabric used, be within =
period=20
specifications? (Granted this is a wide range) I actually have a harder =
time=20
finding things on the coarse side of period (about 6 or 8 tpc than I do =
with the=20
finer 12 to 15 or more tpc)
We try to stay within the range of the sett for our period (warp/weft =
count)=20
but like you, we have difficulties here as well. We have a few cloth =
suppliers=20
who attend our re-enactors fairs who are pretty good and we usually say =
to new=20
members, get a snip of the cloth and show it to someone who knows. I =
often get=20
bits of cloth sent to me in the post so that I can say =91yes=92 or =
=91no=92. What you=20
need to do is =91get your eye in=92 for something that looks and feels =
right. If you=20
can find good bits, carry snips around with you. (Mr Ali who sells linen =
cloth=20
will be at Shrewsbury)
 Does Regia require that all fabrics be of a period weave? If =
so, I=20
believe we can document tabby, basket weave, and the 1/2 and 2/2 twills=20
including: herringbone, chevron, and diamond. Yes?
We do stick to the period weaves, and you have named them.
 Does Regia require that all fabric be woven with singles? More =
difficult,=20
but not impossible to so with commercial fabrics. If so, do they require =
that=20
they be of Z twist?
No, we do not require cloth to be woven with singles and even though =
Z twist=20
was more common, we do not insist on that.
 Does Regia allow for 'plaid' fabric? I have seen evidence of =
striped=20
warps, but nothing to indicate a pick of colour in the weft. (Granted =
some of=20
the samples are so small that we may just be seeing the part without the =

stripe) 
This is a vexed subject! At one stage, no patterned cloth was =
allowed. This=20
was because people tended to go a bit mad (the =91car rug=92 syndrome!). =
Now we=20
allow stripes and checks within reason. 
 Does Regia allow for fabrics that are not 100% natural fabric? =
For=20
instance, if I have a piece of fabric that appears to the naked eye to =
be wool,=20
but is in fact 85% wool and 15% nylon can it be used. (The nylon will =
appear=20
under a magnifying glass.) What about things that are good 'linen look'. =
Or a=20
wool/silk blend that looks like wool?
It isn=92t always possible to get fabric that is 100% natural. Here =
good linen=20
is expensive, so we allow a mix of synthetic as long as it looks like =
the real=20
thing. (Remember, you are more likely to go up in flames in=20
synthetic!) Does Regia allow for coloured linen to be =
used? I know=20
that linen doesn't take a dye the same way that wool does, and would =
therefore=20
be more expensive to dye. If it can be used, can it be used for all =
ranks? If=20
so, should we be using the same colour cards?
We use coloured linen. I have dyed linen with madder, woad and weld. =
The woad=20
and weld come out every bit as good as on wool. The madder was a bit =
paler. What=20
I do not like to see is bright blue/white linen. It just doesn=92t look =
naturally=20
bleached. I would prefer low ranks to used bleached or unbleached linen =
instead=20
of coloured - but that ain=92t gonna happen!! 
 The pattern for clothing in the handbook, is less specific than =
I'd like.=20
I assume that garments should be cut in geometric pieces, similar to the =
tunic=20
found at Birka and on the Bocksten Bog man. Can we omit the front =
gussets? (I'm=20
sure there is a tunic found without the front gussets, but for the life =
of me I=20
can't remember which one it is.)
&nbsp;
Geometric pieces make for easier fitting when passing your clothes on =
to=20
someone else. With regard to front panels or gussets. There are examples =
from=20
12C and 13C with front gussets on tunics (apparently not always set in =
dead=20
centre ... poor tailoring?). These are the same colour as the tunic. The =
Mammen=20
tunic (970-971AD) would seem to have had a centre gusset - at least that =
is how=20
it has been re-constructed in the National Museum in Copenhagen. I do =
know of=20
some people in Regia with centre gussets in their tunics, but you can =
omit them=20
as you can also omit side gussets. Can we use keyhole =
neckline,=20
such as those found in the Bayeux tapestry?
Yes, you can use keyhole necklines - also round and =
square. I=20
think that may be it for textiles, but I'd like to ask you something =
about=20
embellishing your garments.
 From reading the handbook it would appear that both trim and =
embroidery=20
are acceptable. To talk on trim: When weaving trim, can we use =
both=20
tablets and a horizontal loom? 
Trim and embroidery are acceptable for high ranking people. You can =
use a=20
tablet loom for narrow trim. We have very little evidence for horizontal =
looms=20
from the early part of Regia=92s period. Slightly more for later. =
However, any=20
narrow trim that you can weave on a horizontal loom can be woven on =
either a=20
tablet loom or a warp weighted loom.
I assume that we should use colours found on the colour =
cards.<FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>
Use the colours on the colour cards for wool or linen and silk thread =

embroidery. Don=92t forget, if you are a high member of the church or a =
high=20
ranking secular, you can have couched gold thread. 
What fibers are acceptable to use? Wool and linen, I'd assume. Silk =
for high=20
end?
Wool, linen, silk and gold thread.
 Do we need to try to keep the fiber diameters within period =
specs? 
 It would be good to keep fibres within =
period specs,=20
but so little secular Anglo-Saxon embroidery has been found! Silk used =
for=20
embroidery had usually not a lot of twist or even non.
Do the trims made on a horizontal loom need to be made with singles, =
which I=20
believe are far more common then plied in period, though plies are not =
unknown.=20

 I've read that if you try to use singles with a tablet loom, that =
they=20
will unspin themselves and that plied fibers where used in this way in =
period.=20
Is this correct? 
Machine spun singles work OK on a tablet loom - I=92m doing some at =
the moment.=20
As for plied fibres - machine plied do work - I haven=92t tried hand =
plied. Anyone=20
else know?
 On to embroidery: Again, use wool and linen, maybe a =
little bit of=20
silk. Use the colours as outlined on the colour charts. What =
motifs are=20
acceptable? Do we simply look at other period sources, such as =
manuscripts,=20
architecture, and the Bayeux tapestry and take elements from =
that?<FONT=20
color=3D#ff0000>
Motifs. Now there=92s a question! The only Anglo-Saxon secular =
embroidery that=20
we have are small pieces of vine scroll, and on the Llangorst textiles,=20
inhabited vine scroll with what appear to be peacocks and bunches of =
grapes.=20
This last could be counted thread embroidery, or, some experts think the =
design=20
may be woven in the cloth. The jury is out .......... Viking motifs - =
well, you=20
couldn=92t do better than look at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cs.vasar.edu/~capriest/vikresource.html">http://www.cs=
.vasar.edu/~capriest/vikresource.html</A>=20

viking embroidery stitches and motifs. And there are also the Oseberg =

textiles. These motifs are mostly couched circles - rather like the =
Olympic=20
Games motif - with small backward facing quadrupeds in them. They also =
used=20
strips of decorative silk sewn into their clothes. 
Do you embroider right on the fabric, or on a contrasting colour =
which is=20
then applied to the garment?
We should, I think, embroider on separate cloth and sew that onto the =

garment. When the garment wore out - or was passed on, then the =
embroidery could=20
be removed and re-used, as with the Masseik Embroideries.
 Where should the embroidery go? Any provenance for embroidered =
keyhole=20
necklines?
Where to put the embroidery - well this is a pet theory of mine - on =
the=20
garment openings as protection(??) - wrist, neck and hem. There is also =
evidence=20
(manuscript) for a strip of decoration down the front from centre neck =
to hem.=20
Possibly the seams were also decorated. 
 Can we simply decorate with embroidery 'medallions'? One element, =
then a=20
large gap, and then another element? Or must the embroidery all join=20
together? 
If you use the Bayeux Tapestry as an exemplar, isolated medallions =
would seem=20
to be OK - but remember, these may be representations of Byzantine=20
silks
 The Regia webite has a good list of period stitches that can be =
used, so=20
I've got that. That is all that I can think of now. Thank you =
again for=20
taking the time to answer my =
questions. =C6dwen -Wynmerestow
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