[Regia-NA] SCA-style vs. Regia-style discourse
Frojel Gotlandica
list-regia-na@lig.net
Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:19:17 +1100
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Hi=20Scott
=20All=20I=20can=20say=20is=20that=20they=20must=20be=20really=20small=20m=
inded=20and=20you=20are=20better=20off=20that=20they=20don't=20give=20any=20=
help,=20we=20
do=20and=20we=20even=20attend=20some=20SCA=20events=20at=20times=20and=20w=
e=20even=20invite=20SCA=20people=20to=20our=20feasts,=20if=20you=20have=20=
a=20look=20at=20our=20web=20page=20we=20even=20have=20photos=20of=20SCA=20=
people=20doing=20their=20fighting=20etc=20so=20that=20is=20not=20the=20rul=
e=20
but=20the=20exception.=20We=20have=20always=20been=20willing=20to=20help=20=
and=20answer=20questions.=20We=20have=20the=20information=20and=20
we=20try=20to=20pass=20it=20around=20as=20much=20as=20possible,=20mostly=20=
it=20is=20Gotland=20specific=20but=20at=20also=20fits=20a=20lot=20of=20oth=
er=20groups=20
since=20the=20Gotlanders=20were=20pretty=20busy=20on=20the=20trade=20side=20=
of=20things.=20We=20even=20have=20a=20reasonable=20number=20of=20
photos=20of=20artifacts=20on=20the=20page=20for=20people=20to=20use=20or=20=
download.
=20You=20cannot=20steal=20what=20is=20freely=20given=20to=20you,=20though=20=
we=20also=20ran=20into=20that=20attitude=20back=20in=20the=20early=20days.=
The=20best=20way=20to=20react=20to=20people=20like=20that=20is=20to=20publ=
ish=20and=20spread=20around=20everything=20you=20can=20find,=20then=20thei=
r=20
little=20secret=20"reasearch"=20becomes=20insignificant=20and=20they=20are=
=20soon=20recognised=20for=20what=20they=20are.=20Mdecal=20
marvels=20who=20have=20had=20ther=20Cranial=20contents=20transposed=20with=
=20their=20colon=20contents.
Cheers
Sandy
>Here=20Here!=20Couldn't=20have=20made=20a=20better=20explaination=20so=20=
I=20won't.=20All=20I=20can=20
>say=20is=20that=20the=20last=20time=20I=20asked=20for=20authenticity=20he=
lp=20from=20a=20reenacting=20
>on-line=20group=20who=20knew=20I=20was=20in=20the=20SCA=20was=20"We=20don=
't=20like=20people=20in=20the=20SCA=20
>because=20all=20they=20want=20to=20do=20is=20steal=20our=20research."
>(not=20saying=20it=20was=20this=20particular=20group)
>Talk=20about=20frustrating.
>Scott
>Bravery=20is=20being=20the=20only=20one=20who=20knows=20you=19re=20afraid=
.
>=14=20Franklin=20P.=20Jones
>>From:=20Carolyn=20Priest-Dorman=20<capriest@cs.vassar.edu>
>>Reply-To:=20list-regia-na@lig.net
>>To:=20list-regia-na@lig.NET
>>Subject:=20[Regia-NA]=20SCA-style=20vs.=20Regia-style=20discourse
>>Date:=20Mon,=2010=20Mar=202003=2010:21:05=20-0500
>>
>>If=20someone=20is=20looking=20for=20solid=20factual=20documentation,=20a=
nd=20is=20frustrated=20
>>because=20she=20isn't=20finding=20it,=20it=20isn't=20helpful=20for=20her=
=20to=20be=20hearing=20
>>something=20like=20this.
>>
>>>But=20then,=20there=20isn't=20any=20solid
>>>documentation=20for=20the=20existence=20of=20children,=20either.=20We=20=
know=20this,=20we=20have
>>>three=20on=20site,=20and=20trying=20to=20explain=20them=20away=20is=20j=
ust=20the=20pits...:-))
>>
>>Nonsense!=20=20There's=20plenty=20of=20solid=20carbon-dated=20evidence=20=
for=20the=20existence=20
>>of=20children=20of=20all=20ages=20throughout=20history,=20in=20the=20for=
m=20of=20skeletons.=20=20(No,=20
>>as=20a=20mother=20I=20don't=20like=20to=20contemplate=20the=20existence=20=
of=20dead=20children=20
>>either,=20but=20the=20truth=20is=20important=20and=20sometimes=20needs=20=
to=20be=20said.)
>>
>>It=20is=20more=20helpful=20to=20the=20questioner=20if=20the=20people=20w=
ho=20respond=20either=20
>>answer=20"yes,=20here's=20the=20documentation,"=20or=20"X=20has=20the=20=
documentation,=20go=20ask=20
>>her,"=20or=20"no,=20I=20don't=20have=20documentation."=20=20Rhetorically=
=20phrased=20factually=20
>>incorrect=20responses=20don't=20do=20anything=20to=20either=20help=20or=20=
calm=20down=20the=20
>>frustrated=20questioner;=20they=20just=20inflame=20the=20situation.
>>
>>I=20have=20noticed=20this=20particular=20culture-clash=20problem=20repea=
tedly=20on=20this=20
>>particular=20list.=20=20It=20simply=20is=20not=20easy=20to=20orient=20on=
eself=20to=20Regia's=20world=20
>>view=20and=20values=20from=20the=20remote=20location=20of=20the=20New=20=
World.=20=20Kim=20has=20gone=20a=20
>>long=20way=20toward=20providing=20insight=20into=20the=20problem=20when=20=
he=20points=20out=20in=20
>>his=20most=20recent=20Regia-NA=20post=20the=20basic=20penury=20of=20Regi=
a=20as=20an=20organization,=20
>>and=20how=20Regia=20can't=20often=20underwrite=20publication=20of=20memb=
ers'=20research.=20=20
>>This=20accounts=20for=20the=20paucity=20of=20membership=20and/or=20organ=
izational=20
>>handbooks,=20etc.=20=20(I=20think=20I=20have=20a=20copy=20of=20every=20o=
fficial=20Regia=20
>>document--handbook,=20bylaws,=20and=20fighting=20rules.=20=20Is=20that=20=
it?)
>>
>>However,=20most=20of=20the=20results=20of=20research=20in=20the=20SCA=20=
are=20similarly=20
>>unpublished.=20=20And=20however=20easy=20it=20is=20to=20take=20pot-shots=
=20at=20the=20SCA=20for=20its=20
>>base=20level=20of=20inauthenticity,=20the=20simple=20fact=20that=20serio=
us=20high-level=20
>>researchers=20live,=20research,=20play,=20and=20produce=20documentation=20=
there=20simply=20
>>cannot=20be=20laughed=20off=20by=20anyone.=20=20The=20SCA=20solves=20thi=
s=20problem=20by=20vigorously=20
>>promoting=20(and=20rewarding)=20discourse=20among=20the=20membership=20a=
bout=20factual=20
>>historic=20information=20they've=20found,=20in=20the=20interest=20of=20e=
nsuring=20a=20more=20
>>authentic=20game.
>>
>>In=20the=20SCA,=20when=20someone=20asks=20for=20documentation=20it's=20b=
ecause=20he=20wants=20to=20
>>make=20or=20do=20a=20more=20period=20thing.=20=20It's=20not=20a=20challe=
nge=20to=20the=20communal=20
>>knowledge=20of=20the=20entire=20SCA--it's=20a=20praiseworthy=20impulse=20=
seeking=20an=20outlet.=20
>>=20=20When=20North=20American=20SCA=20people=20come=20to=20Regia,=20as=20=
I=20did,=20they=20seek=20to=20be=20
>>oriented=20to=20the=20knowledge=20base=20of=20Regia=20in=20just=20the=20=
same=20way=20and=20for=20just=20
>>the=20same=20reason.=20=20They=20express=20this=20need=20by=20talking=20=
to=20the=20only=20populace=20
>>they=20can=20lasso:=20=20the=20e-groups.=20=20But=20I've=20noticed=20tha=
t=20many=20times=20what=20they=20
>>find=20is=20a=20baffling=20silence,=20a=20bewildering=20language=20barri=
er=20(it=20*seems*=20like=20
>>English,=20much=20of=20the=20time),=20or=20assertions=20about=20what=20i=
s=20and=20isn't=20
>>historically=20authentic=20by=20people=20who=20get=20hostile=20when=20th=
eir=20statements=20are=20
>>probed=20for=20the=20underlying=20sources.
>>
>>SCA=20people=20need=20to=20understand=20that=20the=20rank=20and=20file=20=
Regia=20member=20does=20not=20
>>always=20know=20what=20the=20documentation=20is,=20because=20that's=20th=
e=20express=20job=20of=20
>>the=20local=20Authenticity=20Officer.=20=20(This=20is=20not=20a=20critic=
ism!=20=20I'm=20willing=20to=20
>>bet=20that=20the=20rank=20and=20file=20don't=20know=20much=20about=20wha=
t=20the=20local=20group's=20
>>ledgers=20look=20like=20either,=20for=20the=20same=20reason.)=20=20But=20=
in=20the=20SCA,=20there=20is=20
>>no=20"Authenticity=20Officer"=20post.=20=20Regia=20people=20need=20to=20=
understand=20that=20the=20
>>insistence=20of=20SCA=20people=20on=20sources=20of=20fact=20is=20not=20a=
=20challenge,=20but=20the=20
>>result=20of=20the=20deliberate=20"authenticity=20vacuum"=20in=20the=20SC=
A=20hierarchy.=20=20And=20
>>both=20sets=20of=20people=20need=20to=20understand=20that=20if=20Regia-N=
A=20is=20to=20flourish=20we=20
>>will=20need=20to=20work=20toward=20creating=20some=20middle=20path=20tha=
t=20satisfies=20both=20Old=20
>>World=20operating=20methods=20and=20New=20World=20acculturation.
>>
>>Remember,=20the=20ultimate=20goal=20here=20is=20to=20have=20fun=20being=20=
authentic;=20that's=20why=20
>>we're=20all=20here,=20isn't=20it?
>>
>>
>>Carolyn=20Priest-Dorman=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=DE=A2r=
a=20Sharptooth
>>=20=20http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/thora.html
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>list-regia-na=20mailing=20list
>>list-regia-na@lig.net
>>http://www.lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add=20photos=20to=20your=20e-mail=20with=20MSN=208.=20Get=202=20months=20=
FREE*.=20=20
>http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail
>_______________________________________________
>list-regia-na=20mailing=20list
>list-regia-na@lig.net
>http://www.lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list-regia-na
Fr=94jel=20Gotlandica=20Viking=20Re-enactment=20Society.
http://www.frojel.com/
frojel@frojel.com
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<HTML>
<FONT=20FACE=3D"Times=20New=20Roman"=20DEFAULT=3D"FACE"><FONT=20SIZE=3D"3"=
=20POINTSIZE=3D"12"=20DEFAULT=3D"SIZE">Hi=20Scott<BR>
<BR>
=20All=20I=20can=20say=20is=20that=20they=20must=20be=20really=20small=20m=
inded=20and=20you=20are=20better=20off=20that=20they=20don't=20give=20any=20=
help,=20we=20do=20and=20we=20even=20attend=20some=20SCA=20events=20at=20ti=
mes=20and=20we=20even=20invite=20SCA=20people=20to=20our=20feasts,=20if=20=
you=20have=20a=20look=20at=20our=20web=20page=20we=20even=20have=20photos=20=
of=20SCA=20people=20doing=20their=20fighting=20etc=20so=20that=20is=20not=20=
the=20rule=20but=20the=20exception.=20We=20have=20always=20been=20willing=20=
to=20help=20and=20answer=20questions.=20We=20have=20the=20information=20an=
d=20we=20try=20to=20pass=20it=20around=20as=20much=20as=20possible,=20most=
ly=20it=20is=20Gotland=20specific=20but=20at=20also=20fits=20a=20lot=20of=20=
other=20groups=20since=20the=20Gotlanders=20were=20pretty=20busy=20on=20th=
e=20trade=20side=20of=20things.=20We=20even=20have=20a=20reasonable=20numb=
er=20of=20photos=20of=20artifacts=20on=20the=20page=20for=20people=20to=20=
use=20or=20download.<BR>
=20You=20cannot=20steal=20what=20is=20freely=20given=20to=20you,=20though=20=
we=20also=20ran=20into=20that=20attitude=20back=20in=20the=20early=20days.=
<BR>
The=20best=20way=20to=20react=20to=20people=20like=20that=20is=20to=20publ=
ish=20and=20spread=20around=20everything=20you=20can=20find,=20then=20thei=
r=20little=20secret=20"reasearch"=20becomes=20insignificant=20and=20they=20=
are=20soon=20recognised=20for=20what=20they=20are.=20Mdecal=20marvels=20wh=
o=20have=20had=20ther=20Cranial=20contents=20transposed=20with=20their=20c=
olon=20contents.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
Sandy<BR>
<BR>
>Here=20Here!=20Couldn't=20have=20made=20a=20better=20explaination=20so=
=20I=20won't.=20All=20I=20can=20<BR>
>say=20is=20that=20the=20last=20time=20I=20asked=20for=20authenticity=20=
help=20from=20a=20reenacting=20<BR>
>on-line=20group=20who=20knew=20I=20was=20in=20the=20SCA=20was=20"We=20=
don't=20like=20people=20in=20the=20SCA=20<BR>
>because=20all=20they=20want=20to=20do=20is=20steal=20our=20research."<=
BR>
>(not=20saying=20it=20was=20this=20particular=20group)<BR>
><BR>
>Talk=20about=20frustrating.<BR>
><BR>
>Scott<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Bravery=20is=20being=20the=20only=20one=20who=20knows=20youre=20afraid=
.<BR>
>=20Franklin=20P.=20Jones<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>From:=20Carolyn=20Priest-Dorman=20<<FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>ca=
priest@cs.vassar.edu<FONT=20COLOR=3D000000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U>><BR=
>
>>Reply-To:=20<FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>list-regia-na@lig.net<FONT=20=
COLOR=3D000000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U><BR>
>>To:=20<FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>list-regia-na@lig.NET<FONT=20COLOR=
=3D000000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U><BR>
>>Subject:=20[Regia-NA]=20SCA-style=20vs.=20Regia-style=20discourse<=
BR>
>>Date:=20Mon,=2010=20Mar=202003=2010:21:05=20-0500<BR>
>><BR>
>>If=20someone=20is=20looking=20for=20solid=20factual=20documentatio=
n,=20and=20is=20frustrated=20<BR>
>>because=20she=20isn't=20finding=20it,=20it=20isn't=20helpful=20for=
=20her=20to=20be=20hearing=20<BR>
>>something=20like=20this.<BR>
>><BR>
>>>But=20then,=20there=20isn't=20any=20solid<BR>
>>>documentation=20for=20the=20existence=20of=20children,=20eithe=
r.=20We=20know=20this,=20we=20have<BR>
>>>three=20on=20site,=20and=20trying=20to=20explain=20them=20away=
=20is=20just=20the=20pits...:-))<BR>
>><BR>
>>Nonsense!=20=20There's=20plenty=20of=20solid=20carbon-dated=20evid=
ence=20for=20the=20existence=20<BR>
>>of=20children=20of=20all=20ages=20throughout=20history,=20in=20the=
=20form=20of=20skeletons.=20=20(No,=20<BR>
>>as=20a=20mother=20I=20don't=20like=20to=20contemplate=20the=20exis=
tence=20of=20dead=20children=20<BR>
>>either,=20but=20the=20truth=20is=20important=20and=20sometimes=20n=
eeds=20to=20be=20said.)<BR>
>><BR>
>>It=20is=20more=20helpful=20to=20the=20questioner=20if=20the=20peop=
le=20who=20respond=20either=20<BR>
>>answer=20"yes,=20here's=20the=20documentation,"=20or=20"X=20has=20=
the=20documentation,=20go=20ask=20<BR>
>>her,"=20or=20"no,=20I=20don't=20have=20documentation."=20=20Rhetor=
ically=20phrased=20factually=20<BR>
>>incorrect=20responses=20don't=20do=20anything=20to=20either=20help=
=20or=20calm=20down=20the=20<BR>
>>frustrated=20questioner;=20they=20just=20inflame=20the=20situation=
.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I=20have=20noticed=20this=20particular=20culture-clash=20problem=20=
repeatedly=20on=20this=20<BR>
>>particular=20list.=20=20It=20simply=20is=20not=20easy=20to=20orien=
t=20oneself=20to=20Regia's=20world=20<BR>
>>view=20and=20values=20from=20the=20remote=20location=20of=20the=20=
New=20World.=20=20Kim=20has=20gone=20a=20<BR>
>>long=20way=20toward=20providing=20insight=20into=20the=20problem=20=
when=20he=20points=20out=20in=20<BR>
>>his=20most=20recent=20Regia-NA=20post=20the=20basic=20penury=20of=20=
Regia=20as=20an=20organization,=20<BR>
>>and=20how=20Regia=20can't=20often=20underwrite=20publication=20of=20=
members'=20research.=20=20<BR>
>>This=20accounts=20for=20the=20paucity=20of=20membership=20and/or=20=
organizational=20<BR>
>>handbooks,=20etc.=20=20(I=20think=20I=20have=20a=20copy=20of=20eve=
ry=20official=20Regia=20<BR>
>>document--handbook,=20bylaws,=20and=20fighting=20rules.=20=20Is=20=
that=20it?)<BR>
>><BR>
>>However,=20most=20of=20the=20results=20of=20research=20in=20the=20=
SCA=20are=20similarly=20<BR>
>>unpublished.=20=20And=20however=20easy=20it=20is=20to=20take=20pot=
-shots=20at=20the=20SCA=20for=20its=20<BR>
>>base=20level=20of=20inauthenticity,=20the=20simple=20fact=20that=20=
serious=20high-level=20<BR>
>>researchers=20live,=20research,=20play,=20and=20produce=20document=
ation=20there=20simply=20<BR>
>>cannot=20be=20laughed=20off=20by=20anyone.=20=20The=20SCA=20solves=
=20this=20problem=20by=20vigorously=20<BR>
>>promoting=20(and=20rewarding)=20discourse=20among=20the=20membersh=
ip=20about=20factual=20<BR>
>>historic=20information=20they've=20found,=20in=20the=20interest=20=
of=20ensuring=20a=20more=20<BR>
>>authentic=20game.<BR>
>><BR>
>>In=20the=20SCA,=20when=20someone=20asks=20for=20documentation=20it=
's=20because=20he=20wants=20to=20<BR>
>>make=20or=20do=20a=20more=20period=20thing.=20=20It's=20not=20a=20=
challenge=20to=20the=20communal=20<BR>
>>knowledge=20of=20the=20entire=20SCA--it's=20a=20praiseworthy=20imp=
ulse=20seeking=20an=20outlet.=20<BR>
>>=20=20When=20North=20American=20SCA=20people=20come=20to=20Regia,=20=
as=20I=20did,=20they=20seek=20to=20be=20<BR>
>>oriented=20to=20the=20knowledge=20base=20of=20Regia=20in=20just=20=
the=20same=20way=20and=20for=20just=20<BR>
>>the=20same=20reason.=20=20They=20express=20this=20need=20by=20talk=
ing=20to=20the=20only=20populace=20<BR>
>>they=20can=20lasso:=20=20the=20e-groups.=20=20But=20I've=20noticed=
=20that=20many=20times=20what=20they=20<BR>
>>find=20is=20a=20baffling=20silence,=20a=20bewildering=20language=20=
barrier=20(it=20*seems*=20like=20<BR>
>>English,=20much=20of=20the=20time),=20or=20assertions=20about=20wh=
at=20is=20and=20isn't=20<BR>
>>historically=20authentic=20by=20people=20who=20get=20hostile=20whe=
n=20their=20statements=20are=20<BR>
>>probed=20for=20the=20underlying=20sources.<BR>
>><BR>
>>SCA=20people=20need=20to=20understand=20that=20the=20rank=20and=20=
file=20Regia=20member=20does=20not=20<BR>
>>always=20know=20what=20the=20documentation=20is,=20because=20that'=
s=20the=20express=20job=20of=20<BR>
>>the=20local=20Authenticity=20Officer.=20=20(This=20is=20not=20a=20=
criticism!=20=20I'm=20willing=20to=20<BR>
>>bet=20that=20the=20rank=20and=20file=20don't=20know=20much=20about=
=20what=20the=20local=20group's=20<BR>
>>ledgers=20look=20like=20either,=20for=20the=20same=20reason.)=20=20=
But=20in=20the=20SCA,=20there=20is=20<BR>
>>no=20"Authenticity=20Officer"=20post.=20=20Regia=20people=20need=20=
to=20understand=20that=20the=20<BR>
>>insistence=20of=20SCA=20people=20on=20sources=20of=20fact=20is=20n=
ot=20a=20challenge,=20but=20the=20<BR>
>>result=20of=20the=20deliberate=20"authenticity=20vacuum"=20in=20th=
e=20SCA=20hierarchy.=20=20And=20<BR>
>>both=20sets=20of=20people=20need=20to=20understand=20that=20if=20R=
egia-NA=20is=20to=20flourish=20we=20<BR>
>>will=20need=20to=20work=20toward=20creating=20some=20middle=20path=
=20that=20satisfies=20both=20Old=20<BR>
>>World=20operating=20methods=20and=20New=20World=20acculturation.<B=
R>
>><BR>
>>Remember,=20the=20ultimate=20goal=20here=20is=20to=20have=20fun=20=
being=20authentic;=20that's=20why=20<BR>
>>we're=20all=20here,=20isn't=20it?<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>>Carolyn=20Priest-Dorman=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=DE=
=A2ra=20Sharptooth<BR>
>>=20=20<FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest=
/thora.html<FONT=20COLOR=3D000000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U><BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>>_______________________________________________<BR>
>>list-regia-na=20mailing=20list<BR>
>><FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>list-regia-na@lig.net<FONT=20COLOR=3D000=
000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U><BR>
>><FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>http://www.lig.net/mailman/listinfo/list=
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><BR>
><BR>
>_________________________________________________________________<BR>
>Add=20photos=20to=20your=20e-mail=20with=20MSN=208.=20Get=202=20months=
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><FONT=20COLOR=3D0000ff><U>http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/feature=
demail<FONT=20COLOR=3D000000=20DEFAULT=3D"COLOR"></U><BR>
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