[Regia-NA] My response to Colors, Getelds, Etc.

[Hrolf Douglasson]

Excuse me...I was the one who mentioned the paint mix of ochre/urine and
oil..I did NOT suggest you used it..please read my original mail. I said I
believed that it might be used.
the only information I can trace back is to the 1500'splease don't put words
into my mouth.

woad also only grows in the very south of UK and then only if tended..woad
grew arouind guildford in surrey during our period and it was famous for
that fact.
vara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lori Rael Northon" <lesseley@attbi.com>
To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:05 PM
Subject: [Regia-NA] My response to Colors, Getelds, Etc.


> I am responding to a couple of comments from a couple of emails.
>
> Where is the documentation to support your inferences regarding what was
> used or not used in the construction of Getelds as to material, color, how
> that material was achieved, decorations, techniques used to achieve that
> decoration, and who used the Geteld from the Anglo-Saxon society?
Citations
> only, no arbitrary conclusions or leaps of faith or analogies to other
> societies or references to respected older members.  Give me documentation
I
> can use.
>
> I will admit that the conclusions I've arrived at based on the
documentation
> I have at hand -  'Anglo-Saxon Wills' and about 4 or 5 manuscript
> illuminations portraying a variety of Getelds - may not be exact, but at
> least I've tried my hardest to find supporting documentation for the
Geteld
> I've created.  I have yet to be told about any solid documentation
regarding
> Getelds (with the exception of the single entry for a "red Geteld" from
Roll
> that I found by searching the Regia UK archives) by any member of Regia -
UK
> or NA.
>
> I have been told to paint my Geteld using red ochre and horse dung and
urine
> and a variety of other things, when the citations as quoted clearly tell
us
> about sails being water-proofed from a different time period or society.
> Nothing about Anglo-Saxon Getelds.
>
> I'm told to consider "use and means" when using documentation I run
across,
> okay, then that means that every single reference or citation for Getelds
> that I've found was meant for or portrays only the highest of the clergy
and
> the highest of the royalty, because the manuscripts were not meant for or
> used by either the lesser clergy nor the common people in the time period
we
> portray.  The !only! conclusion I can come to is that no one within our
> group portraying an Anglo-Saxon, with the exception of the highest of
> Royalty or the highest of the clergy would be allowed to use a Geteld or a
> conical tent.  End of conversation.  I guess we all sleep under tree
limbs,
> blankets, furs, other people or out in the open.
>
> I'm told blue was a difficult and horribly expensive color to obtain (?)
and
> that since the Anglo-Saxon people were living at subsistence levels (?)
they
> would not have access to or use the color blue (?).  I'm also told the
only
> way to obtain blue in the quantities I would need to achieve dark blue
would
> be to use indigo from India (?).  It is my understanding from countless
> references too numerous to even mention, as well as many dye "experts"
> across the board, that a very dark blue is achievable using woad.  It is
my
> understanding that woad was and continues to be a highly invasive weed
that
> was used by the "cottage" dyers in the time period we portray.  The
chemical
> component in woad is exactly the same as the component in indigo, just
found
> in smaller amounts in woad than indigo, and is indistinguishable under
> chemical analysis.  So can anyone please give me a citation from the
period
> that tells me the common Anglo-Saxon people did not use woad and did not
dye
> any of their material blue?
>
> I'm told also that the modern eye cannot distinguish the difference
between
> chemically achieved black dye and black achieved using period methods.
I'm
> also told that period black will fade over the course of its lifetime when
> exposed to sunlight and eventually turn brown.  I have no problem with the
> fading issue, but modern chemically achieved blacks will do the exact same
> thing.  I do have a serious problem with modern eyes not being able to
> discern the difference.  If this is true for black, then it holds true for
> all colors, and it holds true for all members within Regia as well.  We
all
> have modern 20th century eyes.
>
> I could go on, but I won't.  I will say again, that I will not compromise
my
> beliefs regarding my own research or that of others I know to be factual.
I
> will hold an absolutely open mind, however, and if anyone can provide me
> citations and references to support a different conclusion about any of
the
> things I question, I will most certainly change my conclusions.  Until
then,
> I must again respectfully agree to disagree with the arbitrary and
erroneous
> ( totally in my opinion) conclusions that some members of Regia have
reached
> apparently based on their own preconceived notions and not on factual
> evidence.  All are free to disagree or agree with my viewpoints.
>
> For now, we have far more important things to discuss like how to get our
> members authorized for Skills then to continue quibbling amongst
ourselves.
>
> Lori
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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