[Regia-NA] Danish Rulers question.
Hrolf Douglasson
list-regia-na@lig.net
Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:59:17 +0100
Sjelland is these days known as Sealand (I think), and not to be confused
with that Zeeland in the netherlands. It is the biggest island in the Belt
that stretches across the top of Germany through the Baltic, and is the site
of modern Copenhagen. Jutland, on the other hand, is the bit of Europe
sticking up from Germany/ Netherlands, and thus Mainland.
There is, or was, a book I got hold of once, titled, I think, "Viking
Age Denmark"; it may have been by Glob, famous for work on the bog bodies.
This was a good read; I should never have taken it back!! :-) It postulated
from grave sites that Jutland was a separate kingdom for most of the Viking
Age, even into Gorm and Harald Bluetooth's time, and when the "Marcher
Lords", who guarded the edges, died, they were buried on-the-job, as it
were, so that protection and service to the king continued even into death.
Very Christian!
When the great Army invaded, in Alfred's day, it had a multitude of
leaders, including various alleged sons of the semi-legendary Ragnar
Lodbrok. A swift scan through the Anglo-saxon Chronicles shows the ease with
which the various warbands within it broke up and re-formed at whim. The
treaty of Wedmore was between Alfred and one Guthrum, who, if I remember
correctly, is otherwise unknown to history, so he may have been acting as
overking- or main sponsor!
The situation is different by the time Sven Forkbeard arrives: here is a
definite Royal Army, bent on conquest, but still, possibly, from a king of
less than "all" denmark-but remember that, for a lot of the time, one or
other of the Denmarks included lumps of Norwegian and/ or Swedish kingdoms.
It gets murkier the further you go...
Hrolf the lost
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Knight" <knight1066@hotmail.com>
To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Danish Rulers question.
> thanks for the help. the reason I brought up the Heimskringla is they
> mention Gorm the old as the king of denmark in passing. Could you tell me
> more about sjelland ? did they have different kings then Denmark were they
> totally independant from jutland ? And when the Danish great army invaded
> England and eventually formed the Danelaw, who lead them?
> If you can help me with this I'd appreciate it.
> Thanks for the help.
> Chris Knight
>
>
> >From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf@btinternet.com>
> >Reply-To: list-regia-na@lig.net
> >To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
> >Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Danish Rulers question.
> >Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:26:47 +0100
> >
> >Off the top of my head, 'cos it's late, and I can't find the book...
> >
> > ...but isn't Heimskringla the Norwegian kings anyway? Not
necessarily
> >accurate for either of the denmarks of the day...
> >
> > ...but... I am assuming your date of 950 for the demise of Gorm the
> >old
> >is from Harald Bluetooth's stone at Jelling. This is probablt
innaccurate,
> >as the stone itself is dated, I believe, to 945, and was erected after
> >Harald had (we think) exhumed both his parents from their mounds, and
> >reburied them under his nice, shiny new church...lovely man, he deserved
> >everything he got.
> > According to Gwyn Jones (A History of the Vikings,1990 edition), a
> >Harald (son of Harald Klak) and a Horik (son of that Godfred credited
with
> >the Danevirke barrier) ruled jointly or apart until 827, then Horik ruled
> >alone until 853 or 4, when killed in battle.(Harald and his kin made
pacts
> >with the franks, and ended up with large lumps of Frisia).
> > Horik was succeeded by ....Horik the Younger!!! Soon there was a
> >Viking
> >named Rorik calling himself king of southern Jutland, and by 873, the
> >brothers Sigfred and Halfdan were known as two Danish kings among many
> >other
> >minor ones. Two more kings died in battle in 891, a Sigfred and a
> >Godfred...good here, innit?
> > Gorm the Old appears to have risen to some sort of prominence around
> >936, but he may not have been alone, for all that the smaller stone at
> >Jelling (that he erected to Thyri after her death) makes the first
recorded
> >use of "Denmark" As I said earlier, the later stone itself dates to
around
> >945-950, by which time Gorm was dead and his son was claiming to have
made
> >all the Danes Christian. For myself, I suspect that "Denmark" translates
> >more accurately as "Jutland", and that the sea-kings of Sjelland and the
> >other islands in the Belt carried on much as before.
> >
> > Hope this hasn't muddied the waters too much!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hrolf the confused
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Chris Knight" <knight1066@hotmail.com>
> >To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
> >Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:47 AM
> >Subject: [Regia-NA] Danish Rulers question.
> >
> >
> > > I have been doing researching about the ruler(s) of Denmark from
> >around
> > > 814 to 890 and cant seem to confirm any information I find. According
to
> >my
> > > copy of the Heimskringla my best bet is king Gorm the old. But
according
> >to
> > > the medieval scandinavia website it's listed as follows:
> > > 814-854 Harik I
> > > 854-870 Harik II
> > > 870-890 Halfdan
> > > 890- ? ?
> > > ?-950 Gorm the old
> > >
> > > Does anyone on the list have any Ideas or information on if
> >this
> > > royal line is accurate or not? or can point me in the right direction
> >for
> > > further research?
> > > thanks for the help.
> > > Chris Knight
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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