[Regia-NA] Horned Helmet Holiday Heresy (hefty)

[Frojel Gotlandica]

Why is it that something like this always comes up when you are not near the reference stuff.
I don't think it is inflamatory to speculate and discuss something, after all up untill 3 years ago the Viking age 
aspheric lenses were thought to have been imported from Asia, it was only in 2002 that the archaeologists at 
Frojel excavated various lenses and raw material in all stages of manufacture and accepted that there was a 
workshop at Frojel harbour where the lenses were being manufactured.
As the the horned helmet thing well.
There has actually been a paper done on the subject and the horned helmet is attributable to a royal birthday 
party in Norway, the costume designer made the helms as well using 19th century paintings depicting the 
Norse gods. He was given the credit for the design which was used by an opera company as well then 
stolen by Hollywood. The author actually wrote a 12 page paper on the subject which I was told was well 
received and often quoted by academics. So there is proof that Norse Kings wore horned helmets, even if a 
little after the Viking age.
 Aside from the Bronze age priests helmet there have been no horned helmets found before the 19th century 
so by all means keep an open mind but accept there is no proof of their existence before the Kings birthday 
party.

Cheers
Sandy


On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:56:41 -0800 (PST), Jack Garrett wrote:

>And now for something completely inflammatory...

>I've read the opinion of the Straight Dope Science
>Advisory Board regarding horned helmets during the
>Viking period: 

>http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhornedhelmet.html

>I'll assume it's my own ignorance that I haven't heard
>of them before, but a few things occur to me:

>1) I'm really put off by any quasi-authoritative
>document that begins with a statement like, "No
>self-respecting Viking warrior ever wore a horned
>helmet in battle--they weren't that dumb."  There's
>simply no way any "self-respecting" source could ever
>recover from so sweeping a statement.  This article
>doesn't either.

>2) The authors seem far too fond of their own
>expertise and wit to make their compelling research as
>compelling as it should be.  They overlook or push
>aside some obvious rebutting evidence (see below). 
>They provide examples of horned or otherwise adorned
>helmets all around the Vikings geographically and
>chronologically, but claim, absolutely, that the
>Vikings never wore horned helmets.  They forget that
>absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

>3) While most warriors tend to be practical, many
>aren't.  There are perfectly reasonable reasons to
>wear unreasonable gear to war.  One is related to
>status and display.  The Japanese samurai wore
>elaborate helmets (kabuto) to war.  Classical Greeks
>wore crested helmets that were made heavier and more
>dangerous by those crests.  British troops in the 18th
>century wore red coats that made inviting targets for
>American colonial sharpshooters.  Hard to say that
>warriors from these cultures weren't self-respecting.

>4) A second reason to wear unreasonable gear is
>intimidation.  Warriors have always used their gear to
>frighten the enemy.  (Seen "Road Warrior" lately?)  An
>unadorned nasal helmet isn't going to frighten many
>people, but wear a bear shirt or go into battle naked
>and you start to win the psychological battle before
>the first arrow has been launched.

>5) The third reason is for cultural or religious
>beliefs.  The Danish Bronze Age (and probably
>ceremonial) helmets they cite can be seen at:

>http://www.vikingsofkyrbyr.gbtllc.com/MuseumCopenhagen.htm

>An amulet of  Odin (or a priest of an Odin cult)
>wearing a helmet with two ravens was found in a
>Viking-age grave in Uppsala, Sweden and is shown on
>page 59 of "Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga".  The
>figure cited in the Oseberg tapestry is strikingly
>similar.

>So, am I claiming the Vikings wore horned helmets? 
>Nope.  Am I going to wear one or encourage others who
>want to?  Again, nope.  Do I think that more than a
>(possible) few Vikings wore horned helmets?  Once
>again, nope.

>But, I'll keep the possibility open.  I just can't
>believe that somewhere in the chilly north, sometime
>in what we call the Viking Age, a self-respecting
>Viking sitting at a fire one winter didn't look at the
>helmet he had inherited from grandpa, then look over
>at Bossy munching at the other end of the longhouse
>and say, "Hmmm...."

>Ottar/Jack

>--- Jeanne <jeanne at atasteofcreole.com> wrote:

>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf
>> Of Roy B. Scherer
>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:00 AM
>> To: SCA-atlantia-marinus at yahoogroups.com; The Merry
>> Rose
>> Subject: [MR] Viking Helmets
>> 
>> 
>> 	FYI, some interesting info here:
>> "Dear Straight Dope:
>> Did Vikings really have horns on their helmets?
>> --Thad in San Antonio
>> SDSTAFF bibliophage replies:
>> No self-respecting Viking warrior ever wore a horned
>> helmet in battle--they
>> weren't that dumb. As anyone who has done any
>> slaughtering can tell you,
>> horns provide nothing more than a good handhold to
>> steady your work while
>> you're busy slitting someone's throat. Nor did
>> Viking warriors wear . . ."
>> Balance online at:
>>
>http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhornedhelmet.html
>> -- Britton Morgan
>> mka Roy
>> end
>> 
>> 		- - Roy B. Scherer
>>   [8 N. Sheppard Street, Richmond, VA 23221; (804)
>> 355-7612]
>>
>============================================================
>> 	"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful,
>> committed citizens
>> 	can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing
>> that ever has."
>> 		-- Margaret Mead
>>
>============================================================
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>=======================================================================

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Fr”jel Gotlandica Viking Re-enactment Society.
http://www.frojel.com/
frojel at frojel.com

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