[Regia-NA] General Observations by Phil

[Lori Rael Northon]

Thanks Phil for these observations.  Some of them will be quite useful for
many of us.  I, for one, intend to add them to my growing file of
information to check out.  Regarding the term 'pastel' and woad and
difficulty obtaining dark colors - I would be very careful simply assuming
the medieval meaning of the word is the same as the modern meaning without
investigating its etymology completely.  I've been surprised on several
occasions when I thought I could just apply modern meanings to words that on
first glance looked to be the same.  In this case, my reference (Funk and
Wagnal Standard Dictionary Comprehensive International Edition) indicates
'pastel' (Middle French 1400's and Italian) means woad, either as a dye or a
plant and refers me to pastello - the diminutive form of pasta (Late Latin
200-600 AD) meaning an adhesive mixture.  Really very different than the
delicate, soft or grayish version of a color that our modern expectation
leads us toward. 8^)
Lori

> Message: 6
> From: "Phil" <phils@clara.net>
> To: <list-regia-na@lig.net>
> Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] My response to Colors, Getelds, Etc.
> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:37:51 -0000
> Reply-To: list-regia-na@lig.net
>
> Please, lets keep our collective shirts on.
>
> A few general observations if I may:
>
> 1)    Nancy Foy Cameron, "Woad: Its history, how to grow it, how it works,
> how to get colour out of it" ISBN 0-9534014-3-X, and a very modest £4,
> states that in C12 Edinburgh the Merchant Guild specifically excluded
those
> "with dirty hands or blue nails." Clearly just after our period woad was
> being grown quite far North (although if memory serves, the climate was a
> degree or two warmer back then).
>
> 2)    She also states that there are some fabric samples from York,
C9-C11,
> that contain indigotin, presumably from local woad. Perhaps someone with
> more time and interest in this than me would care to follow that up?
>
> 3)    She also cites a commercial dyer from the US in 1832 saying what a
> difficult process dyeing with woad is. Although the commercial dyer is
more
> concerned about consistency of colour, but if it was a difficult process
in
> 1832 I'd bet a pound to a penny it was a difficult process in 1032!
>
> 4)    She also says that the French word for best woad was 'pastel' which
to
> my mind suggests it is hard to get deep colours from it.
>
> 5)    Black: As I understand in no one in Regia has ever said it wasn't
> possible, or indeed easy, to get black. As an occasional dabbler in
dyeing,
> even an ignoramus such as myself can get it - so it must be easy. What we
> have said though is that we don't want people to use black because we tend
> to end up with a sea of black clothing - making us look like some bad
1970's
> Ninja movie.
>
> 6)    I have a reference somewhere, can't lay my hands on it at the
moment,
> wherein the residents of the Isle of Ely in the C16 or C17 are asking for
no
> more woad to be grown on the Isle because of the depletion of the soil. If
> it depleted the soil then, it undoubtedly depleted the soil in our
period -
> thus making it a crop which would be expensive in the longer term to grow.
>
> 7)    Indigo: in his book 'The Normans in Sicily' John Julius Norwich says
> that one of the main exports from Sicily during the Normo-Sicilian period,
> C11-C12, was indigo. as the Norman state turned in on itself and became
less
> tolerant the Muslim population left the island, and took with it the
> knowledge of how to grow the crop.. It's sometime since I read this book,
> and unfortunately the somewhat sparse index doesn't include indigo -
however
> I distinctly remember its mention, because it runs counter to what I'd
been
> told in Regia.
>
> Sorry, no conclusions, just some points for thought.
>
> Phil.